It is, and as far as I am aware, they haven't got much further than a prototype and proof of concept. If anyone knows more about the NatAmi project and it's current status, please feel free to jump in with comments.
Could such a thing exist? Amiga accelerator, FPGA.
- Thread starter HonestFlames
- Start date
- Replies 35
- Views 1043
It is, and as far as I am aware, they haven't got much further than a prototype and proof of concept. If anyone knows more about the NatAmi project and it's current status, please feel free to jump in with comments.
Would an existing expansion card design be useful to an FPGA accelerator project? I wonder if a defunct company's design might be available at little or no cost?
Also, I think there are legitimate unofficial 68000 clones out there, so I am not convinced that Motorola would oppose an FPGA clone. Does the approach emulate the actual processor's design, or does it emulated the instruction set?
Also, I think there are legitimate unofficial 68000 clones out there, so I am not convinced that Motorola would oppose an FPGA clone. Does the approach emulate the actual processor's design, or does it emulated the instruction set?
HonestFlames
New member
I can only imagine the instruction set is emulated. There wouldn't be any point trying to emulate the complexities of the internal design.
No one said we weren't supporting Natami. I realize you guys get a lot of flack from other boards and people who shout vapor all the time..
We're pretty open to ideas here, so I don't think you'll get much of that...
But, if you're saying we shouldn't also be supporting FPGA Arcade or an A1200 accerlerator, that's different..
We're starving, and are staring into the windows of all the restaurants that aren't open yet...
OPEN OPEN OPEN!!! :wooha:
That said, they are looking to be different markets based on price..
Same as the X1000 (and the SAMs). I am very supportive of those..
But I like 68K and they are too expensive, so they're not for me...
I'd love an Accelerator/RAM for my 1200 new at something of a reasonable price... I'll keep hoping...
FPGA Arcade is interesting because it looks to have more speed and RAM (and more CHIPRAM??), but it's not out yet and price is still up in the air..
Then there's Natami, which looks very interesting, but again, there's no word on price and availability. That's not a bad thing. Take your time and get it right... I'm in no rush..
But I have to admit, part of me really likes the old cases, and would really prefer an accelerator or MB replacement option.. but who knows...
I am looking forward to Natami, and whatever else continues the 68K Amiga line.
desiv
At the end of the day costs are going to be pretty similar for a finished natami board compared to an fpga accelerator. Personally I'd rather have the entire board new than a slightly cheaper accelerator fitted to a slow motherboard that's got nothing better to do than give out vague threats of letting it's caps leak.
RoHS and tracking down old chips, and having to way to hook them up to an fpga.
RoHS and tracking down old chips, and having to way to hook them up to an fpga.
Does RoHS matter with community projects?
Don't let her looks fool you!!
Those aren't just threats!! She'll do it!!
;-)
Pic looks good..
I would ask if there was any estimated (SWAG type) prices and release dates, but I suppose it's just wait and see.. :-(
It was good to see it running AWeb on the Natami forum, so I can assume it's getting closer(er..er.)...
desiv
OK, Mike who's doing the FPGA Arcade says that he thinks the pricing initially will be around 200-220 Euros. He says, after the initial 50, he thinks the price could come down to 150 Euros..
Of course, this is all tentative and who knows, and this isn't technically accelerated.
From one of the posts, assuming it's accurate (I suppose it could get better or worse depending)..:
Now, if I remember some of the sysinfo stats from expanded (not accelerated) Amiga 1200's, I think they ran about 2 x A1200??
So, it sounds like this is running about as fast as an Amiga 1200 with FAST RAM, which it is basically.
Of course, it's running at 7Mhz and the FPGA gives it a boost to keep it up with the 14Mhz A1200...
So, this (FPGA Arcade) looks to be an A1200 replacement, with more RAM.
The thread at Amiga.org is really huge and things have changed like crazy, so I can't remember the "what's included".
But that price sounds downright reasonable...
Especially since I think it comes with an SD (or some type) memory slot and HDMI (VGA with an adapter) and I am pretty sure a scan doubler...
PS2 mouse/keyboard ports...
There was talk about ethernet, but I don't see it on the new board pics?
Interesting looking...
So, if this is looking to be a cost effective low end new Amiga, could the Natami be the A4000 to it's A1200?
When I do the math, I think I could probably just about trade my A1200 and 1200 accessories for the FPGA Arcade..
It will get me more memory (not sure how much comes with it, I think 64M?), but not more speed.
desiv
Of course, this is all tentative and who knows, and this isn't technically accelerated.
From one of the posts, assuming it's accurate (I suppose it could get better or worse depending)..:
Now, if I remember some of the sysinfo stats from expanded (not accelerated) Amiga 1200's, I think they ran about 2 x A1200??
So, it sounds like this is running about as fast as an Amiga 1200 with FAST RAM, which it is basically.
Of course, it's running at 7Mhz and the FPGA gives it a boost to keep it up with the 14Mhz A1200...
So, this (FPGA Arcade) looks to be an A1200 replacement, with more RAM.
The thread at Amiga.org is really huge and things have changed like crazy, so I can't remember the "what's included".
But that price sounds downright reasonable...
Especially since I think it comes with an SD (or some type) memory slot and HDMI (VGA with an adapter) and I am pretty sure a scan doubler...
PS2 mouse/keyboard ports...
There was talk about ethernet, but I don't see it on the new board pics?
Interesting looking...
So, if this is looking to be a cost effective low end new Amiga, could the Natami be the A4000 to it's A1200?
When I do the math, I think I could probably just about trade my A1200 and 1200 accessories for the FPGA Arcade..
It will get me more memory (not sure how much comes with it, I think 64M?), but not more speed.
desiv
Ahh, amiga.org. You know I remember someone on there once said that the software part of natami alone "would take a good sized team ten years"... to do what, write a screenmode driver?
That's interesting news about the fpga arcade, I'll have to look into that.
That's interesting news about the fpga arcade, I'll have to look into that.
Yeah, I have to admit, I still read the posts, because there is some good information and some smart people there...
But I don't post/interact there anymore. Don't even log-in...
It's just too confrontational and frequently condescending..
Too bad too..
Yeah, admittedly, I was initially interested in it for the guts of my Arcade machine, and then someone ported the minimig core to it and it got interesting. Then they added AGA and it got really interesting..
I'm actually seriously considering retiring my A1200 in favor of this guy.
Although they aren't shipping yet, and I have a habit of changing my mind several times a day..
..
OK, several times an hour.. :wooha:
Maybe more... :nuts:
desiv
@ desiv
There are Troll Kingdoms, there are Fanboy sites, there are even Fanboy Troll sites; fortunately, AmiBay is none of these, and it's all the better for it.
It's all down to having an administration team that are all on a similar wavelength, that are committed to the community. Some of us on the team are complete opposites, but we always manage to achieve balance.
There are Troll Kingdoms, there are Fanboy sites, there are even Fanboy Troll sites; fortunately, AmiBay is none of these, and it's all the better for it.
It's all down to having an administration team that are all on a similar wavelength, that are committed to the community. Some of us on the team are complete opposites, but we always manage to achieve balance.
If this was true, we'd have seen some releases. Conceptually, I don't doubt it as there is lots of pipelining that would not have been cost effective in the 68060 ASIC. Not to mention the far lower geometry of the FPGAs which would allow for more logic between registers allowing for drastic reductions in the number of cycles of each instruction.
HOWEVER
Realistically there appears to be not enough of the N68050 finished for them to even predict what size / speed grade FPGA would be required in the end. If they did, would we not have heard more of it? FPGA model numbers, routing congestion reports, timing reports etc. I've not seen any of that. Not that it doesn't exist, I may be looking in the wrong place. But if it did exist in this state I would have imagined that the NatAmi team (having been so vocal in the past) wouldn't sit on juicy details like this. Do you not think so?
At what speed? With what % of routing, logic levels etc. They could use the free FPGA tools to target an almost finished N68050 HDL to a device and report back the speed of the design plus the cost of that device.Do people not realize that fpgas are better than they were 10 years ago or what...
I find it interesting that I seem to have the best luck on sites with an English leaning...
Here and EAB, I seem to be able to disagree with people without it getting too condescending... Always a plus for me, as I intend to be wrong quite a bit.
I tend to hold an optimistic view of new projects, so I'm hoping Natami comes through...
Then, even if I have an FPGA Arcade when Natami arrives, I can use the FPGA Arcade in my arcade machine (the PC in there is pretty tired) and upgrade to Natami..
Maybe I can play Duke Nukem Forever on it..
OH Snap!! SORRY!!! SORRY!!! I COULDN'T HELP IT!!!! :wooha:
(Now you see why the other forums don't like me!)
desiv
@ Alexh
That's kind of what I was thinking, in that NatAmi doesn't seem to have progressed that much of late, although I would love to be proved completely wrong.
I just tend to look at the negative side; that way, I am never disappointed....
@ desiv
"Hail to the King, baby!!"
(c) Bruce Campbell
That's kind of what I was thinking, in that NatAmi doesn't seem to have progressed that much of late, although I would love to be proved completely wrong.
I just tend to look at the negative side; that way, I am never disappointed....
@ desiv
"Hail to the King, baby!!"
(c) Bruce Campbell
@alexh: Just because we haven't disclosed what state the 050 is in doesn't mean that it doesn't exist, or that it's slow, or whatever the hell. It's pretty much impossible to know how fast it will be, there's too many things to take into account. We hope it achieves speed X, but there's no point making a promise we may break.
Wait a week or two. Interesting things are afoot. The MX design is nearly done.
Wait a week or two. Interesting things are afoot. The MX design is nearly done.
