debian rant

[ratfink]

Time was when I had a copy of debian linux that I used to install on my retro pcs. It was great, I could run a different OS, learns new things etc., and it seemed to support everything I had. I even installed it on an se/30 mac.

Then one day a new release came along, like a fool I upgraded, then I found my sound card [Turtle Beach Santa Cruz] was no longer supported. I could try to adapt the previous release's code... yeah right, tried that kinda thing to keep some other software running in consecutive releases, what can happen is you fix one thing and break 4 others. Ok I learn to live with this problem, which for the Santa Cruz is caused by the need for non-open-sourcel drivers or some such. Well, actually I just stopped using Debian for audio work...

Fast forward to the present. I put together an old P4 box, based on a Soyo board. Debian 5.0 installs as far as getting an ip address.. no dice. Unsupported network hardware. Can't install.

So I download the latest debian release, same. I try installing it in a VM on a different machine. Same. This is about open-source drivers afaik - if it ain't open source then it's not in the net install.

No, I'm not going to try anything else. There is a principle here about having something that installs easily. Debian can take their distro and shove it, life is too short and yeah I doubt they'll miss me.

 

[Hell_Labs]

Debian's release cycle is:

1) take forever to release a new version

2) don't test it

3) let newbies try the new version, write down all the problems they report while insulting them for "doing it wrong"

4) keep using the old version, while slowly fixing the new one for yourself.

Basically, the debian method of clearing a minefield is to invite a fresh busload of children to play in it every day. I once got told to eat you know what and die & banned from IRC for asking how to install nVidia drivers.

 

[jvdbossc]

I understand ratfink his complaint.

It did not work out for him. I love Ubuntu and Debian. I know some stuff can be troublesome, and it has been much worse in the past.

Debian is rock solid. Ubuntu is more for the people who like more innovation.

Besides, it has a normal browser wich is able to visit 99% percent of the net. Exept Mac OS or Winblows I do not know any OS capable of that.

Ratfink I know drivers can be a HUGE problem, but I plan hardware for the OS. Not see what happens. Buy what is known good. Invest in more expensive equipment witch has standards or is documented or older.

My personal advice is if you ever decide to go with it again keep the /home on a seperate partition and if problems like that arise reformat and reinstall everything exept home partition. (or copy the home including hidden ./dirs)

Then you end up WITH EVERY PERSONAL SETTING, COOKIE etc kept.

Means no documents, cookies, browser historie, program history etc lost.. Lots of installed programs keep a .directory there with all your data...

hope this helps.. And if you decide not to give it another chanche, no problem with that. If a shoe does not fit no need to keep it on..

 

[AndyLandy]

I'll stick with RedHat Fedora. I cannot stand Ubuntu or Debian. Absolutely loathe the both of 'em.

 

[storhemulen]

Gentoo of course!

 

[morcar]

simple solution to this just use windows from 98, 2000, xp and so on.

Linux is great if you want to mess about with but to use it as an everyday thing I dont think its any good.

 

[AndyLandy]

simple solution to this just use windows from 98, 2000, xp and so on.

Careful, if you say stuff like that, I might come along and say "Or even better, get a Mac" and then we're all doomed as the thread will spiral into another pointless OS holy war!

P.S. Storhemulen, I used to be a huge Gentoo fan, but I switched away from it a few years back. Not really sure why, but I was always happy with it as a distro!

 

[Witcher1979]

Just use Dos, then we are all happy. Man those were the days........... hours and hours trying to free memory for a game my machine would never play anyway.

 

[jvdbossc]

simple solution to this just use windows from 98, 2000, xp and so on.

Careful, if you say stuff like that, I might come along and say "Or even better, get a Mac" and then we're all doomed as the thread will spiral into another pointless OS holy war!

P.S. Storhemulen, I used to be a huge Gentoo fan, but I switched away from it a few years back. Not really sure why, but I was always happy with it as a distro!

I have been using red hat 6 to 7.3 and some early fedora as well..to me Fedora and Ubuntu renders about the same results... In real early day's I had Suse and Caldera. I am using ubuntu because it worked for me, but I would not say it is better then fedora ...Probably Ubuntu is far more popular, wich does not state anything about quality. ps: but this means that strange software x is probably going to run more early on ubuntu.. These day's there is an rpm converter, not sure if it is in fedora..

 

[Merlin]

Have any of you tried Linux Mint?

http://www.linuxmint.com/index.php

It seems to come in a few flavours (KDE, Debian and Mint 12) and although I haven't tried it yet, I know a few people who have and they haven't ranted about it being pants, so it may be worth a punt.

It's Unbuntu underneath.

 

[Witcher1979]

Have any of you tried Linux Mint?

http://www.linuxmint.com/index.php

It seems to come in a few flavours (KDE, Debian and Mint 12) and although I haven't tried it yet, I know a few people who have and they haven't ranted about it being pants, so it may be worth a punt.

It's Unbuntu underneath.

Actually Mint is not based on Ubuntu anymore sir, hence why it is probs good now

EDIT:

Now I get it, Unbuntu, very clever

 

[Merlin]

Ah, you spotted that!

 

[Witcher1979]

Ah, you spotted that!

LOL, yeap, takes a few ticks and tocks but I do get it in the end

 

[commodorejohn]

This attitude of "we don't care that it sucks, why should we care if you're having problems?" is the primary reason I gave up bothering with Linux. I first encountered it trying to get a Radeon X1900 Mac edition working with X (no dice, it doesn't use Atom BIOS, and the driver folks are expressly uninterested in making it, you know, work,) and dealt with it again later, when Debian pushed GNOME 3 out, and the thread I started trying to figure out how to get GNOME 2 back consisted mostly of (A) non-techies agreeing but not being able to offer any help, and (B) everybody who might've been able to help telling me I was wrong for wanting it back Open-source has a lot of merits, but unfortunately it seems to breed a lot of these "buh, get it yourself" twits. I'd just like to be able to use a computer, okay?

 

[jvdbossc]

This attitude of "we don't care that it sucks, why should we care if you're having problems?" is the primary reason I gave up bothering with Linux. I first encountered it trying to get a Radeon X1900 Mac edition working with X (no dice, it doesn't use Atom BIOS, and the driver folks are expressly uninterested in making it, you know, work,) and dealt with it again later, when Debian pushed GNOME 3 out, and the thread I started trying to figure out how to get GNOME 2 back consisted mostly of (A) non-techies agreeing but not being able to offer any help, and (B) everybody who might've been able to help telling me I was wrong for wanting it back Open-source has a lot of merits, but unfortunately it seems to breed a lot of these "buh, get it yourself" twits. I'd just like to be able to use a computer, okay?

mm That is true,:roll: But if you buy microsoft stuff you end up with the same. They do not offer much help for there software bought orignal.

 

[Witcher1979]

I love Gnome 2, is 3 really that bad? I hear bad things about it but can't be bothered to check it out.

 

[storhemulen]

P.S. Storhemulen, I used to be a huge Gentoo fan, but I switched away from it a few years back. Not really sure why, but I was always happy with it as a distro!

Come back to the light again! But seriously, using Gentoo is really an open invitation to Mr. Cock-up. I keep using it though, maybe I like it when it breaks and I get to fix it.

 

[r0jaws]

I want to use Linux, I really do. I used to use it all the time, but there is just not enough hours in the day to fix it when it goes wrong.

 

[commodorejohn]

I love Gnome 2, is 3 really that bad? I hear bad things about it but can't be bothered to check it out.

GNOME 3 changes a lot of things around on the assumption that having a unified interface for desktop PCs and tablets must be a good idea because Apple is doing it. (And adds a few general bafflements like making you play hide-and-seek with the shutdown menu, for good measure.) It's not that it's especially buggy, it's just plain wrong-headed in its conception.

(I only used the first version, though, I can't speak for what they've done with it since - but it sounds like they've addressed individual annoyances but haven't come to the fundamental realization that a hybrid desktop/tablet UI is a terrible idea.)

mm That is true,:roll: But if you buy microsoft stuff you end up with the same. They do not offer much help for there software bought orignal.

That's true, but on the other hand they have better hardware support overall, and I have fewer fundamental annoyances with the Windows approach to doing things, so I'm not left trying to tweak things to my liking and being told "love it or leave it" when I have trouble doing so.

 

[Wolfy]

Just downloaded debian 7 wheezy xfce cd 1...
Gonna play laters.

I loved mint when they were on gnome 2.3... but now it`s mints gnome 3 nuttyness or their own gnome 2 implementation (MATE... heh could do with one of those...)

As for restricted hardware, debian do release a firmware tarball...

XFCE+Iceweasel (firefox)+Deluge torrent client+VLC media player+eUAE is all a wolfy needs out of a PC... cannot wait to run debian on a raspberry pi!