Does Commodore monitor 1084S-P support Pal?

[TheThinker]

Just bought a 1084S monitor on eBay (still waiting for my Pal c64 to arrive)


The 1084S manual mentions only NTSC


On the back of the monitor on the label is written: 1084S-P.


https://image.ibb.co/h4oUEb/9_DA667_D9_8_CCC_4_ADB_8306_2_A31_F2120560.jpg


Does the commodore 1084S-P support Pal as well?


My c64 will be Pal so I hope it does.


If not how can I make a Pal c64 work with a NTSC monitor?


Many thanks in advance.

 

[roy_bates]

first off,where did you buy it and what mains voltage does it run off? pal 220 volts 50hz supply,ntsc is 110 volts 60hz mains

they are either pal or ntsc through composite or chroma luma,rgb it wont matter,then again a c64 dont have that

other questions will answer themselves when you reply

 

[TheThinker]

Hi there is written on the back of the monitor:

Model n 1084S-P
120 VAC 50/60Hz 75W

Pictures:

https://ibb.co/gtSNZb
https://ibb.co/d1OJ7w
https://ibb.co/i71Gub

i bought it on eBay U.K., it is a Canadian model.

 

[roy_bates]

ok,well you know it wont work in the uk without a step down transformer


second its ntsc,so you probably wont see any colour on screen

 

[TheThinker]

If you please check this link the 1084S-P is supposed to work Pal as well.

(yes it came with a step down transformer)

so would it work with Pal?

https://gona.mactar.hu/Commodore/monitor/Commodore_monitors_by_model_number.html

 

[roy_bates]

i dont need to check the link to gona,these are either pal or ntsc,not both depending on area it was meant for when it was made

like i explained only place it wont matter is the rgb port


EDIT: it looks like a ntsc monitor to me

 

[TheThinker]

You are right about that.

i have added the pics of the schematic.

http://ibb.co/fmz04b
http://ibb.co/dKQ1AG

is there a way to make the c64 work through the rgb ports or LCA you see in the schematic?

also 50/60 does not mean that it supports Pal as well?
i thought 50 was for Pal.

 

[roy_bates]

i dont need the schematic either,maybe itll help someone else


no ,the only way to make it work in a ntsc monitor like this is to convert it to ntsc or convert the monitors encoder circuitry to pal,no easy feat

and no, no easy way to convert the c64 to rgb im affraid,that would be more than convoluted


and no again ,it doesnt mean it supports pal,not over the composite or chroma luma
there are monitors that support duel formats,unfortunately there are no commodore monitors that support that feature they were eara specific whn it came to the composite or chroma luma ports

 

[BLTCON0]

You are right about that.

i have added the pics of the schematic.

http://ibb.co/fmz04b
http://ibb.co/dKQ1AG

is there a way to make the c64 work through the rgb ports or LCA you see in the schematic?

also 50/60 does not mean that it supports Pal as well?
i thought 50 was for Pal.

PAL is not only about scanning frequencies but also about colour and audio encoding.
Actually frequency is what matters the least here - you can have PAL with 60 Hz and NTSC with 50 hz for example.

RGB doesn't use any PAL/NTSC encoding so it doesn't matter there as long as the monitor can sync to either 50 or 60 hz vertical (horizontal scanning frequency is about the same in either standard).

But for the other inputs the colour subcarrier will be not understood by the monitor, leading to a mono image as Roy said.

 

[TheThinker]

I see...is there any converter you can recommend to get away with this situation in order to use the Pal c64?

Also the monitor came with the following step down transformer.

This transformer (please find pictures below) was already set like in the pictures cause the seller used to play amiga (I guess Ntsc) on it

by using the following transformer to power on the Ntsc 1084SP Monitor would be safe to plug a Pal c64 ?(I’m in U.K.)
is the transformer default setting in picture 2 fine?

many thanks again.

-Step down transformer pics:-

http://ibb.co/fcga4b
http://ibb.co/nHFrcw

 

[roy_bates]

the step down transformer is fine for the monitor,and for where your using it


if you mean will it be safe to plug the c64 into the monitor input,then yes i see its earthed so its ok

if the seller was using it for an amiga he was probably using it via rgb were it wouldnt matter if it was pal or ntsc much



by the way,next time you get one of these and want an easy way to find out if its ntsc or pal,a ntsc 1084 will have a hue knob,pal ones dont,its an easy way to tell the diference apart from its power supply


EDIT: i wasnt sure what you meant by plug a 64 into,lol...so ill try to be as clear as possible,dont plug the c64 power supply into the transformer.yeah,i know its wasnt obvious to me what you meant so im covering that part as well,lol


EDIT2: actually i had a bit more of think about it some of these monitors dont have a earth on the mains side,it wont matter much though

 

[TheThinker]

Many thanks. Would it work with a vhs player or something vintage I can find on eBay easily? I do not have any ntsc computer to test it with.

i paid 91 pounds for monitor+delivery and it is quite useless to me at the moment

 

[roy_bates]

not really sure what you mean,if you mean pass the video through the vcr its exactly the same coming out,so wont make any difference
if you want to see the c64 working just simply plug it into a lcd most take composite

if you want to test the monitor just plug something rgb into it like a amiga,like i have said already you can plug the c64 into it itll just be black and white but you will or should see a i picture

 

[BLTCON0]

Many thanks. Would it work with a vhs player or something vintage I can find on eBay easily? I do not have any ntsc computer to test it with.

i paid 91 pounds for monitor+delivery and it is quite useless to me at the moment

This gadget supposedly converts between PAL and NTSC. But its description hints it'll also convert from 50 Hz to 60 Hz (for standard NTSC compliance), which you don't want (what you basically need is conversion from PAL into NTSC50).

You can ask the seller for a clarification, maybe it'll just convert the colour subcarrier after all.
At any rate, that's the kind of device you need: a converter from standard PAL into NTSC50.

 

[slaz]

Many thanks. Would it work with a vhs player or something vintage I can find on eBay easily? I do not have any ntsc computer to test it with.

i paid 91 pounds for monitor+delivery and it is quite useless to me at the moment

This gadget supposedly converts between PAL and NTSC.

Heh ..... when I had some contact with professional/broadcast video 25-ish years ago, a standards converter was a feckin great 5 or 6u high 19" rack lump of machinery - which cost about £20k - the name Snell & Wilcox comes to mind .... that'll little plastic gizmo will - I suspect - do a pretty atrocious job. Composite video is something to be avoided if possible really ....

The NTSC 1084 ... best to try and try and trade it with someone using it in RGB mode I'd say.

Find a modernish telly with SCART connector and use composite that way if composite is the only show in town.

 

[TheThinker]

Yeah folks you are totally right. If I do not get an amiga I will trade it.

i might also consider to convert it in Pal but I guess it will be expensive.

Anyway with the monitor the seller gave me a stepdown transformer

As you can see:
https://ibb.co/dJd4hw
https://ibb.co/gDnKFG
https://ibb.co/jQ0jhw

Pic 1: NTSC 1084SP Monitor (120 Vac) plugged directly into transformer Output 110V
Pic 2: On the back of transformer input selected is 220 (there are 2 option 110-220)
Pic 3: There is also a knob “fuse” no idea what is.???

i do not have a manual so I’d like to know if is correct here in UK to plug the 120 VAC NTSC monitor directly into output 110V and then select input 220 (instead of 110) on the back of that transformer and plug it into the wall socket..

Also would be safe to connect the c64 Pal to this monitor (with the monitor plugged into the step down transformer)?

Many thanks!

 

[roy_bates]

to your last statement,the answer is yes to this:

i do not have a manual so I’d like to know if is correct here in UK to plug the 120 VAC NTSC monitor directly into output 110V and then select input 220 (instead of 110) on the back of that transformer and plug it into the wall socket..

this one its yes as well:

Also would be safe to connect the c64 Pal to this monitor (with the monitor plugged into the step down transformer)?


and yes,it would of been easier to get a pal monitor and cheaper,ill just be honest about it

 

[slaz]

My Dell 2007FP (a 20" 4:3 aspect monitor) has composite video (and Y/C) video inputs - you ain't having mine though

Look on ebay - you can get one for ~£50 ....

Its also a damn fine computer monitor (as in VGA and DVI-A) ..... so lots of other uses.

 

[TheThinker]

My Dell 2007FP (a 20" 4:3 aspect monitor) has composite video (and Y/C) video inputs - you ain't having mine though

Look on ebay - you can get one for ~£50 ....

Its also a damn fine computer monitor (as in VGA and DVI-A) ..... so lots of other uses.

do you need a vga converter to plug the c64?

how is the video quality?

 

[slaz]

My Dell 2007FP (a 20" 4:3 aspect monitor) has composite video (and Y/C) video inputs - you ain't having mine though

Look on ebay - you can get one for ~£50 ....

Its also a damn fine computer monitor (as in VGA and DVI-A) ..... so lots of other uses.

do you need a vga converter to plug the c64?

how is the video quality?

If the C64 has a PAL composoite video o/p - you can just plug it straight in with a RCA connector (at the monitor
end) - dunno what the C64 has. The image quality .... I seriously doubt if you'll find better in the composite video domain.
Well its a while since I plugged anything into that, but - well its a UXGA monitor (1600 x 1200).

BTW - you'll need to select the composite input from the front panel input selector - thats all.
Don't try using a VGA converter - it won't work. Analogue RGB video i/p is VGA standard, not Amiga or similar 15kHz scan
rate - same applies to DVI-A.

edit - oops - beg yer puddn .... the DVI input is DVI-D not DVI-A (irrelevant to C64)