KryoFlux - USB Floppy Controller Beta Released

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I've seen mention of this over on EAB.
When I've got a bit more dosh and when it's a bit more developed, I'm interested in giving this a shot.
I still cannot make my mind up between getting a Catweasel or not, but if this solution works, I'd prefer this over a Catweasel (as I'm only gonna be imaging disks with it, nothing more)

It would also mean you could use uncracked games in emulators :)
Well, you can use uncracked games in emulators already, if you have the IPF image and the IPF addon for WinUAE (just download it from the SPS website and drop the DLL files in the same directory as your WinUAE.EXE file)
 
But isn't this all about being able to read & write Amiga Floppys via USB on a Pee Cee?? - Maybe I've mis-interperated what I've read? :shrug:

Kin

No, it's all about creating and writing images of floppies on a PC.

Not that it can't be done, but it's from the Software Preservation Society... The initial software is for imaging.

desiv

well we had to start somewhere...

besides, the idea of working realtime on a medium that is old and might fall apart during the process seems a bit risky to us... therefore we decided that working on an offline copy - an image - would be the way to go.

writing of images will come... but not in the next official release. first we want to make sure reading is flawless. a good read is the basis of a good write, isn't it?

we're currently working on getting boards made...

best,
chris

--

The Software Preservation Society
http://www.softpres.org
 
Hi mr.vince....

Welcome to AmiBay!!

:bowdown::bowdown::bowdown: The Kryoflux Project is teh r0xx0rz!!! :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:
 
I've seen mention of this over on EAB.
When I've got a bit more dosh and when it's a bit more developed, I'm interested in giving this a shot.
I still cannot make my mind up between getting a Catweasel or not, but if this solution works, I'd prefer this over a Catweasel (as I'm only gonna be imaging disks with it, nothing more)

It would also mean you could use uncracked games in emulators :)
Well, you can use uncracked games in emulators already, if you have the IPF image and the IPF addon for WinUAE (just download it from the SPS website and drop the DLL files in the same directory as your WinUAE.EXE file)

But isn't the problem with the ripping rather than the image file format? From the way I am reading this, the new device will be able to read copy-protected formats without having to go to the effort of manually figuring out the track lengths, or whatever you have to do to achieve it now. Then you can stick it in an IPF.
 
well we had to start somewhere...

I wasn't complaining! :-) Makes perfect sense to me!

writing of images will come... but not in the next official release. first we want to make sure reading is flawless. a good read is the basis of a good write, isn't it?

OK, I didn't realize that writing would be supported at all in the first release. I can wait tho. Lots of stuff to do..
And apparently I have to start saving up some spending money. :-)

I am actually not too concerned about interactive read/write myself. I am pretty used to working with disk images. For the Amiga stuff, if I can mount the image (In UAE or in Linux as a loop mount), play with it, and then write it back for use on the real Amiga, that would be fine.

And considering, this should work for my Amiga, ST, Mac, C64, Apple II and possibly eventually my Coleco Adam (Thinking that's all I have that use floppies).. seems like it would be a bargain compared to getting multiple other solutions.

desiv
 
There's a point - does the software support Linux currently?

If so, is there any chance of a kernel driver for it being made?

If so, we could mount it as if it were a normal floppy drive :D

(or it could be done via FUSE if you don't like the GPL...)
 
I seem to remember reading that the initial release for the software was command line for Windows, but that it was portable, so it should be able to be converted over.

Of course, going from a command line program to a driver might take a bit of work, but I'm betting there will be some people who jump on that once it's released..

desiv
 
Hi mr.vince....

Welcome to AmiBay!!

:bowdown::bowdown::bowdown: The Kryoflux Project is teh r0xx0rz!!! :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

thanks for the warm welcome. i hope it is. it has caused many sleepless nights to some guys, including me. :)

But isn't the problem with the ripping rather than the image file format? From the way I am reading this, the new device will be able to read copy-protected formats without having to go to the effort of manually figuring out the track lengths, or whatever you have to do to achieve it now. Then you can stick it in an IPF.

yes and no. first, the software lets you image just ANYTHING. as long as we can "talk" to the drive, we get the whole stream that's coming in and stuff it into stream files. if it's on the disk, it's in there. that means we can read any copy protection, whatever. the "problem" is to represent data in a way that it appears to the (virtual) computer. you can do this to some extent with raw images, but more advanced copy protections will need scripting added, which is what we use our analyser for. therefore, the "consumer" will not be able to create ipfs (might come someday, though), but we can use dumps made by users to turn them into ipfs...

And considering, this should work for my Amiga, ST, Mac, C64, Apple II and possibly eventually my Coleco Adam (Thinking that's all I have that use floppies).. seems like it would be a bargain compared to getting multiple other solutions.

yes, this is one solution intended to dump them all. :)

There's a point - does the software support Linux currently?

If so, is there any chance of a kernel driver for it being made?

If so, we could mount it as if it were a normal floppy drive :D

(or it could be done via FUSE if you don't like the GPL...)

I seem to remember reading that the initial release for the software was command line for Windows, but that it was portable, so it should be able to be converted over.

Of course, going from a command line program to a driver might take a bit of work, but I'm betting there will be some people who jump on that once it's released..

two things here... please be aware that this is not free software, it's free for anyone in private, but we do exclude commercial use and other things. i think you know and understand why... there are other commercial solutions that try to do the same or less. we don't want to fix their problems (we encourage competition, we just don't want to see our code in competitive products). so there will be some restrictions in place. i am not sure if these might be a showstopper for the kernel driver. please note that this is meant as a gentle and warm hint, it's not intended to sound like there's a lawyer talking. we just have to see what we do have to "enforce" to make sure this thing does not get ripped apart.

making a kernel driver is also morally depreceated. i did state the reasons for this. we're coming from the preservation approach, so this is like asking someone at a museum to produce something that could harm valuable paintings... it just feels odd. this solution never was intended for realtime and interactive floppy use. if you want to simulate a real floppy, look at the hxc project. it does the same and i think even write support is coming or planned. floppies get older, and their surface will become weaker and reach the point where it will all fall apart. they should not be messed with more than you have to. if you really have to... why don't you use a real machine for this as well? :)

you will also run into problems with emulation because the usb-drive will be slower overall. you have this layer inbetween, where data is read and then needs to be interpreted, somehow, to be presented to the virtual host... this is not trivial. this will cause latency, which might break some more advanced protections. you could halt the emulation while you do this, but hey, we've got ipfs for that, right? of course, this will not be a problem for e.g. normal ados disks, but i do not see any benefit in using a real floppy compared to an image. in fact, this is the way i do work with disks today. i work in emulation with nearly no slowdowns for disk access. i prepare masters and other things and then write the image back to disk to use it in a real machine.

best,
chris
 
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I meant a kernel driver as in a raw block driver rather than an FS driver, so you can dump disks from it without relying on a third party program - as if you were dumping any other floppy disk. I don't know why I mentioned FUSE, I must be tired :p

But yeah - a non-GPL-compatible license would kill the chances of a kernel driver - all code in the kernel must be GPL, though it is possible to get around that (like NVIDIA and ATi do, as well as a few other companies) by having a stub in the kernel that is GPL and loads some non-GPL code on-the-fly from another binary.
 
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@ mr.vince

Welcome to AmiBay. :)

Thank you for taking the time to come in here & talk to us about the KryoFlux project. All very interesting stuff.

Keep up the good work & on behalf of AmiBay, hope you enjoy your time over here. :thumbsup:

Best Wishes,

Kin
 
I meant a kernel driver as in a raw block driver rather than an FS driver, so you can dump disks from it without relying on a third party program - as if you were dumping any other floppy disk. I don't know why I mentioned FUSE, I must be tired :p

But yeah - a non-GPL-compatible license would kill the chances of a kernel driver - all code in the kernel must be GPL, though it is possible to get around that (like NVIDIA and ATi do, as well as a few other companies) by having a stub in the kernel that is GPL and loads some non-GPL code on-the-fly from another binary.

we'll have to see how things work out. because of the very technical nature of disk dumping and because of the many options i doubt that you could automate this up to the point where it would make sense implement this into the kernel. i feel this is a utility, that helps getting data off "ancient" disks and back onto them... so i'd stick to what i've said before.

i really think this is a theoratical problem only. i have the technology at hand, but i don't miss it during my normal computer experience. when an old disk comes in, i plug it in, dump the disk and presto. i could play all those games on my a500/cdtv here, but i find it more pleasant to just load images into winuae instead and keep my precious hardware for real happenings, e.g. friends stopping by for some retro fun or similar.

@ mr.vince

Welcome to AmiBay. :)

Thank you for taking the time to come in here & talk to us about the KryoFlux project. All very interesting stuff.

Keep up the good work & on behalf of AmiBay, hope you enjoy your time over here. :thumbsup:

Best Wishes,

Kin

kin, thank you too for the warm welcome. it's always nice to see where word of mouth is heading and i feel comfortable coming anywhere to help and discuss the project. besides the fact that it is fun being involved, the real joy is to see others using it. i really hope i can make an announcement soon in regard to availability of hardware... this is just all new terrain for us and takes as long... as it takes. ;)

best,
chris
 
Take your time and get it right, Chris; the best things are worth waiting for....:thumbsup:
 
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