Mac Vs. Amiga: A New Perspective

[AmiG]

The Amiga was the first computer I lusted after. My parents gave me a little Tandy TRS-80 with calculator type buttons for keys and later I added a small off brand tape drive. But the Amiga was my first love in the computer world. I used to beg my mother to buy me the latest issue of Amiga World even though I did not yet own an Amiga. The story continues from there, but for now I want to jump forward to more recent times when I was a PC technician and I was entrusted with a large lot of vintage Macs from a school district. I cleaned, fixed up and reloaded system software on many of these Macs sometimes using parts from one to fix another etc. I donated most to local charities but kept a few choice machines for parts and my general amusement of course. I even bought a IIci from evilbay that I upgraded to the hilt and even wrote an article about for lowendmac. This was around 2002. Eventually I became married with kids etc and all my vintage computer items, Amigas included, went into storage. The 1000 came out of storage to be proudly displayed in my computer repair shop from 2006 until 2007 where it ran demos all day. Then it went back into storage. All of these machines were in climate controlled storage with batteries removed etc. My wife is very accepting of most things including my recording studio being in our small house so it wasn't really a big deal when I wanted to get back into vintage computing. Especially now that I had more time to tinker with the kids being a little older.

Coming out of storage, all of my vintage 68k Macs were dead, including the hot rodded IIci. Both Amigas still worked perfectly the first time I started them up. I'm not sure why. Did Commodore use better parts than Apple? The surface mount capacitors on the Mac logic boards were to blame and I did resurrect the IIci but the others I have lost my interest in. On the contrary, I never lost my passion for Amigas which I why I kept them around all these years. Now that I have more time and financial resources, I can give them new life and they can certainly give me new enjoyment as well. I just don't feel the same about this Windows machine I'm typing away on. To me, the Amiga is from a time when computers were more fun and full of wonder and possibilities. They are not the ubiquitous grey, white, or black boxes of today, but computers with heart. Sorry to ramble so but I've been feeling this for quite a while now. Amiga

Some may notice that I changed the title of this post(but the thread title cannot be changed I guess) and that's because the old title did not accurately reflect the content. I want to make sure no one think's I'm against Macs because that would not be accurate either. I love my little Macbook and my vintage Macs. I was very happy to find that my old Amiga models still worked very well after being stored, etc. Hopefully this clarifies things as I did not mean for my post to be a Vs. type post. Heck, I even use a PC at work and for my main DAW in my studio.

 

[SkydivinGirl]

I think many people here, including me, share your love and opinion of the Amiga computers. Even when I sold all my Amiga stuff in the mid-90s, I jumped right back into it when the first emulators appeared. Then about a year and a half ago, I jumped into the retro computing hobby and starting buying equipment.

Thanks for the wonderful story!

Heather

 

[Flink]

Hi!

Like you, I have recently got a very old and mistreated )leaking battery) Amiga 4000 working, to my amazement!

The hardware really seems to be built like a tank! I will post pictures soon on the Photobooth zone.

Have fun!

 

[AmiG]

Amigas were definitely high quality. Even PCs from the 90s seem to be of better quality than today. Hard drives from back then I notice seem to keep running for years and years, whereas I had a couple of 160GB drives that were only 2 years old go bad. My friend who still runs the computer store we started together(I left to pursue CAD) says he sees newer HDs die all the time but the older ones keep going for 10 years or more in daily use. My Amiga 1000 seems to be the best built computer I've ever seen. The 500 is good but still not that good. The 25 year old 1000 is built like a tank when you really look close and has lasted for a very long time. I have an old Stereo Hi-FI console from the 60s with tubes and and it's still working also. My Technics receiver from the 90s died long ago. Guess it's true that they don't make 'em like they used to. I will say that my moderns Macs are very reliable as well. Apple seems to choose good parts overall. Better than your Gateways(ugg) and Dells.

 

[commodorejohn]

I think it generally has less to do with the brand than the time. Certainly the Amigas are built quite nicely, but most computers from that era were built to last, back before computer manufacturers figured out how to build systems so they'd last just until the warranty ran out. The capacitors are a 68K Mac's Achilles's heel, but beyond that even they're built like a rock, compared to a lot of modern systems. I've seen all kinds of pre-'90s computers, and nearly all of them work like new after a little TLC; I think I've only had two systems that were actually non-functional. Heck, I once had an original IBM PC that worked like new almost eighteen years after its manufacture date; meanwhile, its great-great-great-grandson, my 2004 laptop, had its power supply overload and melt the plug literally two weeks after the warranty expired in 2007.

 

[Hell_Labs]

Amigas were definitely high quality. Even PCs from the 90s seem to be of better quality than today. Hard drives from back then I notice seem to keep running for years and years, whereas I had a couple of 160GB drives that were only 2 years old go bad. My friend who still runs the computer store we started together(I left to pursue CAD) says he sees newer HDs die all the time but the older ones keep going for 10 years or more in daily use. My Amiga 1000 seems to be the best built computer I've ever seen. The 500 is good but still not that good. The 25 year old 1000 is built like a tank when you really look close and has lasted for a very long time. I have an old Stereo Hi-FI console from the 60s with tubes and and it's still working also. My Technics receiver from the 90s died long ago. Guess it's true that they don't make 'em like they used to. I will say that my moderns Macs are very reliable as well. Apple seems to choose good parts overall. Better than your Gateways(ugg) and Dells.

And then you get trolls calling them "overpriced"...

Computers were built better 10, 15 years ago than now. My '97 toshiba laptop (Win 95, woo) still works as good as it ever did then, even after being dropped a foot every day, and being bashed into walls while in my bag. The main problem is the attention I get for using such an old machine.

"how old is it?" "Does it still work?" "you mean you actually use it?" "Why don't you get a new one?"

13, yes perfectly, yes, because I don't need to, Laptops aren't supposed to be your normal computer and this one does everything I need.

 

[salaxi54]

Since this topic is mostly about Macs and Amigas, i think i can share my thoughts. I met the A1000 when the 512ke Mac was around. The darn thing costed around 2 grand, had a small screen, and ran whatever it ran in b&w. It never even passed through my mind to purchase a Mac back then, and had my cash "locked" on the Amiga which for $1300 gave me the main unit and the 1080 14" monitor. So glad i did! She's still runing after 23 years.. Along the way came various other Amigas, all working till now (thank god), and surprisingly maybe, quite a selection of Macs too. There's a couple of LC's, a Color Classic, an 7100, 7300, 8100, MacMini G4, MDD G4, PCI graphics G4, and a hackintosh As much as i like Macs, the joy is mostly drawn from the miggies, an what is possible to achieve with them, and on them. Never have i regreted getting one, but alas, i don't think the good times will ever be repeated in the same manner. Durability is undoubtedly there. We all know how sturdy they were built. And in cases of battery leaks, well, if the owners were more cautious some of them dolls would still be ticking. Heck, some have even been resurrected. As about styles, well i personally love the beige creatures more than the plexiglass sculptures of the bitten fruit. But it all is personnal. Having tasted both dishes, i'm with the Amiga flavor. That doesn't mean Macs are bad, i like 'em. But we all have weaknesses..

 

[AmiG]

I wish I had owned my A1000 since new like you have. Mine is still in very nice condition but I wish she had been my first rather than the A500 that was. I've owned her since 1997 though and I will never sell. I know how you feel. I do like my Macbook and my IIci is really but nowhere near the warm feelings I have when I turn on the A1000!

Since this topic is mostly about Macs and Amigas, i think i can share my thoughts. I met the A1000 when the 512ke Mac was around. The darn thing costed around 2 grand, had a small screen, and ran whatever it ran in b&w. It never even passed through my mind to purchase a Mac back then, and had my cash "locked" on the Amiga which for $1300 gave me the main unit and the 1080 14" monitor. So glad i did! She's still runing after 23 years.. Along the way came various other Amigas, all working till now (thank god), and surprisingly maybe, quite a selection of Macs too. There's a couple of LC's, a Color Classic, an 7100, 7300, 8100, MacMini G4, MDD G4, PCI graphics G4, and a hackintosh As much as i like Macs, the joy is mostly drawn from the miggies, an what is possible to achieve with them, and on them. Never have i regreted getting one, but alas, i don't think the good times will ever be repeated in the same manner. Durability is undoubtedly there. We all know how sturdy they were built. And in cases of battery leaks, well, if the owners were more cautious some of them dolls would still be ticking. Heck, some have even been resurrected. As about styles, well i personally love the beige creatures more than the plexiglass sculptures of the bitten fruit. But it all is personnal. Having tasted both dishes, i'm with the Amiga flavor. That doesn't mean Macs are bad, i like 'em. But we all have weaknesses..

 

[Harrison]

As others have said. Hardware reliability is definitely due to when they were made. A lot of hardware these days is very fragile and easily breaks compared to years ago. Even the best PC PSUs these days can't be expected to last more than 3 years. In contrast I'm still running some old systems with PSUs 12 years old, and for my Amiga's much older.

And the same is true of other parts too. Especially motherboards. Again, older PC motherboards just keep on going, but newer ones keep dying. The most common fault when someone asks me to fix their PC these days is a dead motherboard and/or PSU.

Could this also be down to the continual goal to shrink things ever smaller, while at the same time keep adding more and more complexity to them? Motherboards from 10 years ago were a lot less cluttered or complex compared to today, so there was much less to go wrong, and the tracks in the PCBs were much larger. This must have something to do with it.

The one thing that has improved is capacitor and battery reliability. Especially with Japanese solid state capacitors.

As for the Mac vs Amiga debate, which I know isn't exactly what you were trying to write, but still, it has been going on since both systems have existed and no one will ever fully agree.

For me the Mac and Amiga were always at opposite ends of the marketplace back at the time. Both were well designed and built, and both could perform very similar tasks. However for me the Mac was too sterile and clinical, it contained no real passion or soul, and while it could do everything you needed, it did it in a very serious, grey and business like manor. The Amiga in contrast was colourful and fun to use, with its unique and quirky ways of doing things, plus a lot of advantages like multitasking and colour, plus TV resolution output making it easy to integrate into video production.

And then you get trolls calling them "overpriced"...

Why trolls? It has always been the case. And it is another reason the Amiga was loved by so many. To perform anything on a Mac that required a hardware upgrade meant spending a lot of money. To perform a similar task on the Amiga would often cost 10 times less.

Macs are still overprices even today, considering the bog standard middle spec components they use, but they are much closer to reality in their pricing as Apple have completely shifted their main market for the platform to consumers. In the old days the Mac was never seriously aimed at the consumer. It was always marketed at the prosumer market. Publishers, designers, printers etc... And so the price was higher to cash in on this market. Much like Workstations these days with near to identical parts as any other PC are sold for twice the price to the business market.

 

[nkarytia]

Thank God these days you can have both of them without parents ranting about it!
Although I was purely on the Amiga side just for gaming, now I want to have them both (yes, I am into that expensive hobby spending sometimes more than I can afford).

 

[Nathanieltolbert]

There are many reasons as to why computer last a shorter period now than they used to. On the motherboard side I saw a serious degradation in quality when ROHs came out. When ROHs came out, we saw motherboards here that straight out of the box, some component didn't work on it. The best example I've seen was someone flexing a board slightly and watching the caps literally 'jump' off the motherboard. The new solder is so brittle compared to lead as to damage the components when attaching them to the board. The reason power supplies don't last as long as they used to is simple. Cheap caps. It wasn't until the early 90's that there more than 4 or 5 manufacturers of capacitors for electronics, well good ones that is. But as computers gained in popularity, more companies started making them, causing the price to drop, which in turn for companies to continue making a profit, they reduced the quality of the components used to make them, resulting in lower quality capacitors. Power supplies are notorious for using some of the cheapest caps you can find. This is a disheartening issue considering, that the power supply is what protects the system and keeps it running. Why make it the weakest link? One more observation. It's interesting to note that Mac fans call everyone who calls their toys 'overpriced' trolls, yet when we comment on the statements they make about PC's as trollish comments they start sniping at people. Macs are good computers, why do Mac fans feel they have to protect their product so zealously?

 

[commodorejohn]

Macs are good computers, why do Mac fans feel they have to protect their product so zealously?

Old-school Mac diehards are A. the inheritors of Amiga Persecution Complex, now that Amiga fans seem to have gotten over it, and B. understandably touchy about their favorite company's shift in focus from selling high-quality computers to selling Image to hipster twentysomethings with too much disposable income :dry:

 

[Harrison]

Amiga fans got over it? Are you sure about that? Start a new Amiga vs ST thread on any forum and you will soon find this is not true!

 

[commodorejohn]

Amiga fans got over it? Are you sure about that? Start a new Amiga vs ST thread on any forum and you will soon find this is not true!

Well, at least they're less hair-trigger rabid about it than they used to be

 

[Harrison]

True, and some of us even admit to liking and owning both platforms these days...

 

[Justin]

True, and some of us even admit to liking and owning both platforms these days...

:huh:

 

[woodycool]

Amiga fans got over it? Are you sure about that? Start a new Amiga vs ST thread on any forum and you will soon find this is not true!

Well, at least they're less hair-trigger rabid about it than they used to be

I don't know about that ..... trying not to sound too much like a fanboy: the Amiga kicks the STs a&*e

 

[moijk]

Macs are still overprices even today, considering the bog standard middle spec components they use, but they are much closer to reality in their pricing as Apple have completely shifted their main market for the platform to consumers. In the old days the Mac was never seriously aimed at the consumer. It was always marketed at the prosumer market. Publishers, designers, printers etc... And so the price was higher to cash in on this market. Much like Workstations these days with near to identical parts as any other PC are sold for twice the price to the business market.

I have an Acer Timeline 4810tz, a sleek 13" ultraportable? computer with good battery life. Costed just a 1000 NOK less than the plastic macbook. (However, the reason I own it is that I paid 1500 NOK for it with broken screen, and replaced it for an additional 800 NOK from an unfortunate seller and now have a wonderful linux computer).

Compared to the just as portable, just slightly more expensive macbook (again, an additional 1/6th of the price) the macbook has a better cpu and gpu, way better built and has better battery life. But of course, the timeline isn't probably the best deal out there. Because after using a macbook pro for a year that timeline laptop has a terrible feel to it. Feels extremly cheaply built. But, was cheap and is perfect to take notes on so I can bicycle to the univ without dragging a heavy bag with me.

 

[JACK98]

i am going to add my 2cents to this,i remember the original apple macs and they where quiet shít compare to the A500,then later when the macs started to pick up and get more powerful,the amiga started to get left behind,instance i have an lc475 mac,has 040 cpu,machine is well built.

My A1200 on other hand has an 040 too but suffers from the infamous motherboard revisions along with the lockups that can accur with conflicts between the card and mb,i used to have an A4000 aswell before it died from the infamous leaky caps..

 

[Hell_Labs]

Why trolls? It has always been the case. And it is another reason the Amiga was loved by so many. To perform anything on a Mac that required a hardware upgrade meant spending a lot of money. To perform a similar task on the Amiga would often cost 10 times less.

Macs are still overprices even today, considering the bog standard middle spec components they use, but they are much closer to reality in their pricing as Apple have completely shifted their main market for the platform to consumers. In the old days the Mac was never seriously aimed at the consumer. It was always marketed at the prosumer market. Publishers, designers, printers etc... And so the price was higher to cash in on this market. Much like Workstations these days with near to identical parts as any other PC are sold for twice the price to the business market.

80's macs were overpriced, because they were paying off the failures that were the III and Lisa, a several million dollar marketing campain, and someone accidentally gave the CEO office to a door to door pepsi salesman.

90's Macs were overpriced because Said pepsi salesman's replacement really didn't care too much, and the whole powermac and copland failstorm drained resources like WHOA. also NeXT were expensive.

2000s/now Macs? Not overpriced. They are "overpriced" in the way that you could say "Why the hell would I pay £300,000 for a rolls royce? Man, my ford mondeo has just as much room inside and goes just as fast. Rolls are overpriced". Then, 100K miles later when something on your ford needs replacing on average every three weeks, has flat paint , uneven idle and a weird banging noise, you'll be mad as hell when a 1972 Rolls-Royce that's been daily driven since new speeds past you, and you'll curse the day you let your breakdown cover expire.

Macs are just built better. I'd pay the cost difference for the case alone, and you do when you buy one. Jesus christ, a quad core iMac all in one is thinner than a standard LCD monitor, and quieter.