MNT ZZ9000 RAM or BigRam+, or....

[MRE]

Im strongly leaning towards a ZZ9000 for an A4000 build. But in my research, I have come across a few questions which I hope a ZZ9000 user can answer:
1: All the sales material for ZZ9000 says it has 1Gb of DDR RAM. Of course the Z3 bus has a limit of 512MB per slot. And some part of this RAM is needed by the card CPUs and FPGA. I have seen a lot of youtube reviews with only 128MB showing at the top of workbench.
So, how much RAM does the ZZ9000 make available to the Amiga?

2: While trying to find an answer to question 1 (which I cant seem to find), I have come across a lot of users asking how to disable the ZZ9000 RAM in favor of a BigRam+ or some other combination of RAM devices.
So, why would you want to favor BR+ over the ZZ9000 RAM?

 

[comraider]

So, how much RAM does the ZZ9000 make available to the Amiga?

256MB if you use the firmware that includes this option.

So, why would you want to favor BR+ over the ZZ9000 RAM?

I wouldn't use either of them Z3 RAM is quite slow.. but if that's all you have, then might as well use it I guess. I do remember in some earlier firmwares that the ZZ9000's RAM had stability issues--having it enabled could cause problems especially with USB. As a result, some people shut it off and used a BigRamPlus etc instead. Maybe those problems have been resolved in newer firmwares, I haven't tried yet.

 

[MRE]

256MB if you use the firmware that includes this option.



I wouldn't use either of them Z3 RAM is quite slow.. but if that's all you have, then might as well use it I guess. I do remember in some earlier firmwares that the ZZ9000's RAM had stability issues--having it enabled could cause problems especially with USB. As a result, some people shut it off and used a BigRamPlus etc instead. Maybe those problems have been resolved in newer firmwares, I haven't tried yet.

So you advocate CPU card mounted ram whenever possible? I mean sure I expect that.
But now I have to buy a CPU upgrade too!!!!
HAVE TO.... lol

 

[Dragonheart]

I would suggest that you see the ZZ9000 strictly as a RTG/FF card. The other functions are just a bonus - a pretty bad bonus.

Ethernet is slow as heck
USB is kinda useless
The RAM is slow and unstable.

A specialized card for each function (like Ariadne, X-Surf, Rapid Road, Deneb, Freeway) performs multiple times better in their respective function.

The ZZ however is a really outstanding RTG/FF with the best possible picture you can get out of all available solutions.

 

[MRE]

I would suggest that you see the ZZ9000 strictly as a RTG/FF card. The other functions are just a bonus - a pretty bad bonus.

Ethernet is slow as heck
USB is kinda useless
The RAM is slow and unstable.

A specialized card for each function (like Ariadne, X-Surf, Rapid Road, Deneb, Freeway) performs multiple times better in their respective function.

The ZZ however is a really outstanding RTG/FF with the best possible picture you can get out of all available solutions.

Yeah that was the conclusion I was starting to come to given all the googling thus far.
Task specific cards is the way to go (though costly).
Im still trying to avoid just throwing raspberry pies at it Way more affordable, but with a pi RTG, and a pi CPU, we get into the rhetorical "is it still an Amiga?" debate.

 

[comraider]

Yeah that was the conclusion I was starting to come to given all the googling thus far.
Task specific cards is the way to go (though costly).
Im still trying to avoid just throwing raspberry pies at it Way more affordable, but with a pi RTG, and a pi CPU, we get into the rhetorical "is it still an Amiga?" debate.

I mean if you want to really get philosophical, the ZZ9000 is offloading everything to an ARM processor too.. but using the Zorro bus makes it more "legitimate" as an add-on I suppose. Even the older RTG cards were often just PCI cards adapted for the Zorro bus.

You don't *have* to use other cards, you just won't get the same performance. ZZ9000 is under ongoing development though, so it's pretty likely that Ethernet would continue to improve. USB will likely always be just for files though, unlike the RapidRoad that gives you a full USB stack. Zorro RAM is always going to be slow though.

The sweet spot is probably ZZ9000 for RTG, and an X-Surf 100 + RapidRoad to get USB and Ethernet.

 

[awmosoft]

I have'nt had an issue that Ethernet was slow. In my Amiga 4000 with Kickstart 3.2.1 I have a Cyberstorm MK 1 060 with 128 MB, Big RAM+ 256 MB and Z3 RAM 256 MB of ZZ9000 running without problems.

That is 656 MB of Total Fast Mem.

The slowest Ram access I got is with an ATI radeon 9250 as Zorro RAM.

 

[Dragonheart]

You probably don’t know faster Ethernet
ZZ9000 Ethernet is the slowest of all Ethernet solutions for big box amigas.

 

[awmosoft]

Okay, Do you have a speed test compared to Ariadne II vs ZZ900?
I do own an Ariadne II network card

 

[Akiko80]

You probably don’t know faster Ethernet
ZZ9000 Ethernet is the slowest of all Ethernet solutions for big box amigas.

My A4000T has Zorro III issues so the ZZ9000 is set to work in ZII mode, even then I can download a 10MB file from ADA in just under 1 minute.

I'm not sure if the Z90000 in ZIII mode is any faster for ethernet, but I wouldn't call 10MB a minute on a classic Amiga very slow, the ethernet on my V1200 V2 card isn't that much faster.

I'm guessing a ethernet dongle on Deneb in DMA mode is probably the fastest, but these cards are ultra rare, so what is the average speed of a big box Amiga ethernet solution that makes it better compared to the ZZ9000?

 

[awmosoft]

I don't care I'm using a slow Network card like the ZZ9000, because it has a lot of features like playing MP3 via MHI.library (V 1.12 beta test).

 

[comraider]

I don't care I'm using a slow Network card like the ZZ9000, because it has a lot of features like playing MP3 via MHI.library (V 1.12 beta test).

That's true, ZZ9000 has more potential than any other Zorro card because of the possibilities on the ARM side.

 

[JHanna]

Just reading this thread and wondered if the Ethernet on the ZZ9000 has had any upgrades since? Or is it still terribly slow?

 

[JHanna]

Anyone? Beuller?

 

[Comfysofa]

Just thought id throw my hat in....also on the lookout for a new video card....zz9000 seems like the best option (for me) from reading up....my only question is will it work in my 4000TX board?

If the ethernet worked thatd be nice...but as others have said if the development is ongoing as long as its moving in the right direction im fine with that....that being said if i had to get an x-surf that would be fine also...

 

[HomeLate]

I'm not sure if it would work in a 4000TX, but as for the network, no progress was made. The latest firmware is two years ols so I doubt anything new would be released.

I have an X-Surf in my 4000D in Z3 mode and it works (sorta) fast enough.

 

[Comfysofa]

Ah righty...ok...as long as ive got some sort of stable network connection that should be good enough...X-Surf it is then...thanks very much.

 

[cugar124]

Just to add something if it helps, I have the ZZ9000 with Audio and then decided to go for the Z3660 Now the only part of my setup that uses the ZZ9000 is the Video slot and the extra ram the scandoubler on the ZZ9000 is awesome and clear but everything else runs so much better on the Z3660.

Now for the Bad the ZZ9000 is no longer being developed which means v13 is the last firmware which is buggy at best the USB is terrible too.
The Z3660 it is not all roses either as it's a card in development the Current software is not for the faint hearted as you have to get the timing right for your system to get things up and running but once you have it is stable and has a feature rich offering.
As for the Big ram for its cost it offers nothing other than Z3 slow ram I had one once never thought much to it.

Hope that Helps a little.

 

[comraider]

Nice setup! Are you using the emulated CPU with the Z3660? I haven't seen any real-world speed comparisons between it and a PiStorm etc, what's your take?

The Z3660 it is not all roses either as it's a card in development the Current software is not for the faint hearted as you have to get the timing right for your system to get things up and running but once you have it is stable and has a feature rich offering.

 

[qz3fwd]

Z3660 is nice if a bit bleeding edge. Its bigger downside is no scandoubler/flicker fixer handling native modes over HDMI, requiring 2 screens of a switcher dongle.

ZZ9K is a very nice RTG card. Don’t buy it for anything else.