Solution for external Flicker fixer?

[sweetlilmre]

great news, sorry I somehow missed that post!
looking forward to your review.

 

[djos]

great news, sorry I somehow missed that post!
looking forward to your review.

No worries.

 

[djos]

Got my Ambery AV-1M today and it's physically a much nicer piece of kit than the GBS-8220 (hardly surprising as it's smaller and cased).

It does produce more banding than my modded GBS-8220 but I havent got around to adding the same mods yet (very hard to see it in most of the below pics, best example is the insert WB pic as the curved banding is a camera artefact)- One major plus is NO Ghosting at all! and all scrolling (vertical/horizontal) is 100% smooth. The GBS scrolling was decent but the AV-1M is in a class of its own and very impressive for a 50hz-60hz conversion.

Another plus that my Pics dont fully convey is the improved colour reproduction, compared to the GBS-8220, but it is noticeable in person that colours are more natural and richer at the same time.

Oh and one other big plus is the Power Adapter is 100-240v compatible and ships with all major international clip-on plug types.

NOTE: My screen is a 1280x1024 native 19" LCD so it has to do some scaling no matter what - also the curved banding is a camera artefact, the actual banding is 100% vertical.

Plugged in to my a500 showing WB1.3:

Scaling to 640x480 (slightly Soft Pic but with less banding):

Scaling to 1024x768 (Sharper more detailed Pic but with more banding):

Bootable Disk please!:

HxC Disk Manager:

A few BombJack Screens:

 

[roy_bates]

thats not bad.

 

[djos]

It's definitely worth the extra coin imo but the pics are slightly kind to the banding - the Insert WB Disk Screen and BombJack loading screens are the best to show the banding.

Btw, Im using the AmigaKit DB23-DB15 Amiga-VGA adapter (no secret sauce in it, just a straight pin for pin adapter) with a normal VGA cable straight into the AV-1M.

 

[roy_bates]

It's definitely worth the extra coin imo but the pics are slightly kind to the banding - the Insert WB Disk Screen and BombJack loading screens are the best to show the banding.

Btw, Im using the AmigaKit DB23-DB15 Amiga-VGA adapter (no secret sauce in it, just a straight pin for pin adapter) with a normal VGA cable straight into the AV-1M.

do you know if this unit still uses the c/sync or the v/sync and h/sync signals for the conversion?

do you think you could find out.

 

[djos]

According to the Info Screen it is using the full RGBHV Signal:

The full details of the AV-1M are HERE but it supports RGsB, RGBS, RGBH/V and RGBH+V composite sync with sync level above 2 vpp, 75 Ohm.

 

[thgill]

Got my Ambery AV-1M today and it's physically a much nicer piece of kit than the GBS-8220 (hardly surprising as it's smaller and cased).

It does produce more banding than my modded GBS-8220 but I havent got around to adding the same mods yet (very hard to see it in most of the below pics, best example is the insert WB pic as the curved banding is a camera artefact)- One major plus is NO Ghosting at all! and all scrolling (vertical/horizontal) is 100% smooth. The GBS scrolling was decent but the AV-1M is in a class of its own and very impressive for a 50hz-60hz conversion.

Another plus that my Pics dont fully convey is the improved colour reproduction, compared to the GBS-8220, but it is noticeable in person that colours are more natural and richer at the same time.

Oh and one other big plus is the Power Adapter is 100-240v compatible and ships with all major international clip-on plug types.

NOTE: My screen is a 1280x1024 native 19" LCD so it has to do some scaling no matter what - also the curved banding is a camera artefact, the actual banding is 100% vertical.

Very interesting. What exact mods did you do to the GBS? And did they reduce banding?

I wonder how the Ambery handles 24bit AGA color? I assume it would dither it?


I am really interested in the 50Hz scrolling. Cause the GBS board does an atrocious job at this.

 

[CrashMidnick]

djos, do ya have a LCD TV to test it in order to see if it helps for the banding ?

 

[thgill]

djos, do ya have a LCD TV to test it in order to see if it helps for the banding ?

I am curious how it would fare with a VGA CRT monitor too.

 

[djos]

Very interesting. What exact mods did you do to the GBS? And did they reduce banding?

I wonder how the Ambery handles 24bit AGA color? I assume it would dither it?

I am really interested in the 50Hz scrolling. Cause the GBS board does an atrocious job at this.

I installed Steady's LCD Mods (3 caps & a resistor) - I may try them on the AV-1M too but before I do Im going to have a play with different RGB config's using the Composite sync to Pin13.

I havent had a chance to hook up my 1200 yet and try an AGA game - if I get around to it over easter I'll let you know how it goes.

I've tried a few demo's with horizontal scrolling and the difference is significant, it's very smooth and much better than the GBS.

Im not sure why you would think 24bit colour would be dithered? The AV-1M is also designed for used with Component equipped DVD players and dithering would make a real mess if it where used!

djos, do ya have a LCD TV to test it in order to see if it helps for the banding ?

I am curious how it would fare with a VGA CRT monitor too.

I've tried it on several LCD's screens so far including a native 15" 1024x768 acer LCD and the banding was still there - I havent tried it on my Sony Bravia TV yet tho but I doubt it will make any difference.

I suspect it has something to do with the 50-60hz conversion as my 50" Professional Pioneer Plasma Monior can accept 50/60hz @ 15kHz signals and the Amiga Picture is perfect on it (0 banding). I also have a Samsung LCD screen that can accept 60hz @ 15kHz and in NTSC mode the Picture is banding free too.

I no longer have any VGA+ CRT's, just dont have the room for them so chucked them all out.

EDIT: Just found the full pin-outs for the Amiga Video port so I'll take my Amiga-VGA adapter apart tonight and try the 2 main RGB Configs (RGBs vs RGBHV).

 

[sweetlilmre]

@djos:

Thanks for the excellent write up! I think I am going to go and get one of these myself.

Could you point me to any posts / docs on "Steady's LCD Mods"? I'd like to read up on the theory (if this info is in this thread, then I apologize as I've missed it )

-(e)

 

[djos]

@djos:

Thanks for the excellent write up! I think I am going to go and get one of these myself.

Could you point me to any posts / docs on "Steady's LCD Mods"? I'd like to read up on the theory (if this info is in this thread, then I apologize as I've missed it )

-(e)

No worries.

TBH I cant recall exactly where all Steady's posts are, some are in this topic a few pages back but others may be elsewhere.

 

[djos]

Ok some interesting results folks:

I tried using Composite Sync (basically RGBs) and it works but the result is virtually identical to separate H+V:

So then I put it back to H+V Sync and added a 220uF Cap to each of the RGB Lines and it made Zero Difference (mod now removed):

So then I tried my a1200 and it's banding central too:

and then I tried my a500 on my 22" Wide Screen Samsung LCD Monitor and got much nicer results - still a smallish amount of banding but far better PQ overall:

Looks like the better video circuitry in newer LCD's cleans up the banding quite well, no idea why tho. I havent had time to try my 32" Sony Bravia yet but I assume the results would be on par with my 22" Samsung.

So despite the banding Im definitely happier with the AV-1M than I was with the GBS; detail and colour are much better, motion is smooth and there is no annoying ghosting effect around the cursor.

 

[CrashMidnick]

Thanks for your results

Amber based scandoublers and the one of my PIV have banding on my PC monitors (where Indivision's are perfect @50hz) but not on my LCD TV. By increasing the size horizontaly I have removed every single band

That's why I asked you to try your SD on your TV.

 

[Snoozy]

hi djos,

i had a look at your results, the device seems pretty good - maybe it is eclipsing the gbs 8220? Not keen on the unpredictable nature of the vertical banding.

i wonder where all this leaves the indi II which still remains incompatible with many lcd/led.

Back to this 15khz device - the postage seems somewhat inappropriate

 

[djos]

Im about to go to bed but I was playing with the 3 AV-1M modes and noted the following:

640x480 = 2nd least Banding, softest picture, 60hz
1024x768 = Worst Banding, sharp picture, 60hz
1366x768 = 1024x768 (on 4:3 19" LCD), Least banding, sharpest picture, 59.7Hz

1024x768 @ 59.7Hz:

So Im leaving it in the "WXGA" mode as the banding is much reduced.

---------- Post added at 22:25 ---------- Previous post was at 22:22 ----------

hi djos,

i had a look at your results, the device seems pretty good - maybe it is eclipsing the gbs 8220? Not keen on the unpredictable nature of the vertical banding.

i wonder where all this leaves the indi II which still remains incompatible with many lcd/led.

Back to this 15khz device - the postage seems somewhat inappropriate

Banding aside, it beats the GBS boards senseless in every other department.

---------- Post added at 22:39 ---------- Previous post was at 22:25 ----------

Btw Folks, next candidate for testing is this unit from the same company:

Analog Scart CVSB RGB HDMI To HDMI Video Converter Scaler 1080p

Im wondering it the direct digital conversion and full digital pathway to the screen will eliminate the banding artifacts as currently with the AV-1M it is taking an analogue signal, processing it in the digital realm, then converting it back to analogue and then the screen is converting it back to digital again to display it. This Unit also outputs either HDMI or DVI-D with would be handy.

I reckon it's time one of you chaps to step up and play crash test dummy!

 

[sweetlilmre]

hi djos,
Back to this 15khz device - the postage seems somewhat inappropriate

The postage is madness :wooha:

Btw Folks, next candidate for testing is this unit from the same company:

Analog Scart CVSB RGB HDMI To HDMI Video Converter Scaler 1080p

Im wondering it the direct digital conversion and full digital pathway to the screen will eliminate the banding artifacts as currently with the AV-1M it is taking an analogue signal, processing it in the digital realm, then converting it back to analogue and then the screen is converting it back to digital again to display it. This Unit also outputs either HDMI or DVI-D with would be handy.

I reckon it's time one of you chaps to step up and play crash test dummy!

Hmm interesting... and cheaper. I might give this a go, lucky I didn't throw that SCART connector away.

So basically you're suggesting Amiga 23DB <--> SCART <--> box <--> HDMI?

-(e)

 

[thgill]

Nice results on the LCD TV.

If this device had the ability to add scanlines, it would be about perfect.


How does it handle high resolution interlaced?

I am thinking either PAL or NTSC High Res Laced.


Perhaps I should order one of these for myself. I just ordered last night a XRGB-mini Framemeister, but this might work better for Amiga specific use. Hmm...

 

[Justin]

i had one of these http://www.ambery.com/rgbcgatovgac.html, personally i thought it was plop.

https://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?t=29972&highlight=ambery

maybe mine was faulty but i couldn't get the thing to do anything