The Bump Rule - Your Perspective Wanted

[bitcpy]

I've been a member here for a long time and I try to obide by the rules, but, like any other human, sometimes you make honest mistakes. But, when you read the rules and your interpretation seems to be in line with common sense, and you still receive infraction for something without warning, things become a little silly.

I need some outside perspective because either I am not seeing something here, or the rule needs a little more details or warnings before handing out infractions.

Here is the situation:

I have a For Sale thread on an item that I had no ability to test, so I listed as untested. It was listed 7 days ago.

Over the weekend, I had the ability to put the card into a machine, and test and verify that it was working. This took considerable effort and coordination on my part. I took additional photographic evidence, and I updated my thread with this new information. This of course, bumped it, which was my intention so that people would see it was now tested and working.

I received an infraction for "Bumping" my thread.

Well, when I read the rules, that last sentence says "A significant change, refers to a price change or any other relevant information that will be important to a buyer."

I feel having the card tested and confirmed working seems like relevant and IMPORTANT information for the buyer. Makes a big difference if something is sold AS-IS vs TESTED.

Does this make sense only to me??


Bumping your thread:
'Bumping' is defined as posting in your For Sale or Wanted thread for the purpose of bringing it to the top of the list of most recent threads. Unless you have made a significant change to your thread you may only bump your post once every two weeks. A significant change, refers to a price change or any other relevant information that will be important to a buyer.

 

[arnljot]

I know bumping is a constant issue to tackle for the mods.

And I can appreciate that enforcing this rule is hard, and subject to each mods judgement in each case. And I understand that they will sometimes choose to err on the side of being strict rather than lenient with the amount of posts and traffic here when considering how few mods they get by with.

Having said that, I think that amending the post with that the items are now tested would in my judgement be "other significant info". It certainly would perhaps change the mind of a perspective buyer on buying the item, and it's a one off.

I'd also personally brush off I got an infraction from the staff, as I would think that my long record with the site could take it and that I feel confident that I won't spin out and become a repeat offender and come at odds with the site and it's staff. But I can appreciate that it's a bit sore to be taken to have bad intentions when you were just trying to make you sales info complete.

Cheer up! Member since 2012 with 48 (100%) feedback, you're probably not anywhere near being on the staffs radar for misbehaving.

 

[fitzsteve]

Just like you, mods are human too

Hopefully they agree that the above is of significance enough for an update.

I wonder if they outlaw the old 'PM replied' free bump.

 

[bitcpy]

Here in lies the problem...

If a mod goes into a thread and sees a simple "bump", or "pm replied" or other things like that I can understand the quick judgement.

In my case, important information was updated. I took a great deal of time over the weekend to do this work, but yet I cannot make everyone aware of the new information because he "deleted" my response. So I have to wait 7 more days before I can go and make everyone aware.

Upon challenging the mod, and asking him what he thought "important information" was if he didn't agree with my interpretation, I have yet to see a response.

I just think a bit more care can be taken when making judgement calls.

 

[Sardine]

Unfortunately a "ZERO" tolerance is in effect for the bump rules.

I created a thread regarding this back in July 2019.

https://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?107360-The-BUMP-Rule-Please-Read


I even "Sticky" the thread and brought it to the top 3 times and DAILY we are still un-approving early bumps or trivial info as detailed in my thread to evade the bump rule.

I stand by my interpretation of the rules and I ask the other staff if im being overzealous,, the only time I was questioned was when a recent thread selling MANY items was posting 2 or 3 days after "Item sold outside Amibay" to me thats a bump, not important info to a buyer and he could have simply edited his 1st post to reflect the item no longer available amongst a list of over 50. but i was overruled and i didn't remove the bump.

Simply typing "Item tested and extra photos" IS a bump.. this information can be edited to your 1st post "Item now tested and fully working" in as large a font or colour as you like.

 

[bitcpy]

I only ask 1 thing of you.. Please provide 1 or 2 examples of what you believe are SIGNIFICANT changes to an item that is For Sale that WOULD constitute an allowed bump.

We need some sort of measuring stick so that the rule makes sense to us. That's all I am asking.

In my eyes, I spent 4-5hrs over the weekend to make this happen, and I did it so that I could provide additional support and information to a prospective buyer to show him/her that the product is now tested and confirmed working. That is a considerable change in the status of a product. AS-IS/UNTESTED to TESTED and WORKING.

I've said my part, and that's all I wanted. I will rest my case now and that will be the end of it.

Unfortunately a "ZERO" tolerance is in effect for the bump rules.

I created a thread regarding this back in July 2019.

https://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?107360-The-BUMP-Rule-Please-Read


I even "Sticky" the thread and brought it to the top 3 times and DAILY we are still un-approving early bumps or trivial info as detailed in my thread to evade the bump rule.

I stand by my interpretation of the rules and I ask the other staff if im being overzealous,, the only time I was questioned was when a recent thread selling MANY items was posting 2 or 3 days after "Item sold outside Amibay" to me thats a bump, not important info to a buyer and he could have simply edited his 1st post to reflect the item no longer available amongst a list of over 50. but i was overruled and i didn't remove the bump.

Simply typing "Item tested and extra photos" IS a bump.. this information can be edited to your 1st post "Item now tested and fully working" in as large a font or colour as you like.

 

[miggymad]

@Sardine

I'm not certain that people come here to read the General Chat if I'm honest so pointing them to any new rules just from there is the way to go. The vast majority of people just want to buy and sell their stuff and probably ignore any other forums. Perhaps the way forward is to consider having the new bump rules on prominent display as a sticky at the top of every for sale and wanted sub-forum alongside the one by Zetr0.

That way, everyone is made aware and there should be no excuses in the future for pre-bumping threads as per the current rules.

Your thoughts on this?

 

[Sardine]

@Sardine


I'm not certain that people come here to read the General Chat if I'm honest so pointing them to any new rules just from there is the way to go as the vast majority of people want to buy and sell their stuff. Perhaps the way forward is to consider having the new bump rules on prominent display as a sticky at the top of every for sale and wanted sub-forum alongside the one by Zetr0.


That way, everyone is made aware and there should be no excuses in the future for pre-bumping threads as per the current rules.

There is no NEW rules.

everyone agrees to them when signing up.

https://www.amibay.com/misc.php?do=vsarules

 

[miggymad]

Of course everyone agrees to them upon signing up but even the best of us need reminding every now and again hence the sticky suggestion.

 

[Sardine]

Of course everyone agrees to them upon signing up but even the best of us need reminding every now and again hence the sticky suggestion.

no need,, those who need reminding we can do that by resetting the rules for you to re-read (the big box that appears until you accept)

 

[fitzsteve]

The OPs question is regarding interpretation of the rules, whether or not the fact they had tested their item was a significant change, of course one can never write a rule for every eventually.

As long as the rule is applied fairly and consistently, there are a lot of pointless bumps so the mods do have a tough time.

I agree a reminder of the rules like a sticky is a good idea.

 

[Sardine]

to me no, otherwise I can list 50 items and just "TEST" 1 every 3 days and say its now tested working,

checking if an item works is not a significant change to a thread. adding an item or altering the price etc is a significant change.

I also have stopped (a prolific member)

selling Amiga x000

then a few days later

now comes with free Lisa chip..( why ??? to bump his thread...)

Zero tolerance will offend some but eventually all will get what a SIGNIFICANT change is all about.

out of the many (and some similar to the ops) have just replied "ok thanks".

 

[davideo]

As far as I can remember the bump rule is there so that everyone gets a fair opportunity of being on the front page.

That's why at one point we asked that if you have a lot of active threads you only bump a few each day.

As for the original question - What is a significant change?

That's a difficult one - price drops is one valid reason but then we've had members drop high value items by one unit. Does that count as a valid bump?

It's a difficult situation to monitor as we're not about all the time and there does seem very few of us about to watch you naughty devils.

I've issued my fair share of points for breaking the rules and banned a few members as well.

I don't regret any of my actions and at times we don't have the time to wait for a Mod/Admin discussion.

Everything we do we do to the best of our ability.

That was the reason to bring the proof of ownership in to help protect you and your hard earned cash.

Although it would be a hard job we could add the bump rule and proof of ownership to all the sticky posts in each sub-forum.

There's no harm in having a discussion about it.

So - back to you - What in your opinions does make a significant change?

 

[miggymad]

@Davido

Bump rules AND proof of ownership stickies? Yes please!

 

[arnljot]

I'm not sure what other significant information is. The examples you bring up (free Alice) is not. Item now tested, borderline.

As it is now, the rule seems like it should be refined to only allow for significant price reductions. Then that's where the next discussion will be.

It's unfortunate, but natural that were having this discussion on the backside of an actual instance of disagreement.

Unfortunate because people might feel compelled to make their case. Natural because we should exemplify what constitute other significant information other than price reduction.

Seen from the sellers point of view, it would be natural that it's something that either makes the deal more attractive. More items, better condition. A bump in this case would then improve his chance for a quick sale. The other instance could be to filter out potential buyers, but then an edit would do the same thing.

So what about potential punters? I would guess that it cuts both ways. If it's the thing you're looking for, hey good! If it's noise to you, aw shucks. Personally I prefer sellers that bump once too often rather than too seldom. If we're talking about rules that gets broken often it's this one:

Keep your threads updated:
You must keep your sales thread up to date. You may update the original post with the status of your items, using phrases such as SOLD to [Member Name]. We also recommend updating your thread with a new post with other pertinent information, such as "Money received" and "Item sent".

You may revise your thread at any time, however, you are required to leave the prices, descriptions and your terms of sale in place once a sale has been completed. This information is a receipt of the transaction between you and your buyer. If you are struggling to keep threads updated, please contact a member of staff to help.

This one... So like any other task the mods provide for us, the members of this community, it's a balance act. When is a sales thread neglected by the OP, and what does that mean for what the mods do to the OP? When is the thread zealously bumped at the expense of other sellers?

I'm not discussing this to change the rules, but for us to talk about them and explain our thinking so that we all can improve our understanding of them. I hope it'll make it for a more predictable and pleasant stay for us all.

I couldn't agree more with @Davido.

There's no harm in having a discussion about it.

 

[bitcpy]

Let's focus on the last part of the last sentence of the bump rule: "A significant change, refers to a price change or any other relevant information that will be important to a buyer."

This part: "any other relevant information that will be important to a buyer."

If a buyer is looking for an item, and then sees "as-is/untested", they might be dissuaded from buying, but, if it was confirmed working item, they may have purchased it. Sometimes this is the buy/do-not-buy line that buyers look at.

Now, once they have moved on, and the thread keeps dropping, if all of a sudden the item has now been tested and the post is updated with new pictures, that original buyer would never see that thread again because it is below his read list.

The item would have slipped by.

This constitutes a Significant change. If it doesn't, I would still love to see what does because so far everyone keeps saying "price change" or "adding more items".

I think untested vs tested is a significant difference in the status of the item you are selling.

Maybe its just my analytical head that is stubborn and doesn't understand why this doesn't make sense, but, there you have it.

So - back to you - What in your opinions does make a significant change?

 

[davideo]

@Davideo

Bump rules AND proof of ownership stickies? Yes please!

Have a look at this thread https://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?354-Please-read-me-before-posting

 

[bitcpy]

True, but, then wait for that situation to happen and then pull the "bump rule infraction penalty" on that poster. The idea is still valid, just not in the example you cited which is an extreme case.

I dont think everything is black and white. I think you can look at a situation and figure out what the seller is trying to accomplish and then decide how to handle it.

to me no, otherwise I can list 50 items and just "TEST" 1 every 3 days and say its now tested working,

checking if an item works is not a significant change to a thread. adding an item or altering the price etc is a significant change.

I also have stopped (a prolific member)

selling Amiga x000

then a few days later

now comes with free Lisa chip..( why ??? to bump his thread...)

Zero tolerance will offend some but eventually all will get what a SIGNIFICANT change is all about.

out of the many (and some similar to the ops) have just replied "ok thanks".

 

[Templar]

The bump rule is indeed a difficult one. Although I have to agree with the recent changes. I've seen numerous times, sellers to try and bump their sales:

1. Suddendly, I forgot to upload another one picture of the item (what a coincidence, this happens after 1-2 days after the creation of the thread).

2. Initial price is higher from the beginning. Thus, I can bump my thread with price reduction of 5 EUR each time per 2-3 days. I've seen even a price reduction of 1 EUR; ridiculous.

3. Oh, I forgot that one (mouse, disk, manual etc), also comes with the initial sale (after one or two days).

4. Another bump to say that this is in pristine/very good/etc condition and fully working.

5. Hey mate, I have this sale thread, why not posting something to bring it up (in case you declared interest, you can easily withdraw without any penalty), because the 14 days period haven't passed yet.

6. Now is for sale elsewhere (usually after 2-3 days of the creation of the thread).

7. I can accept IBAN as well if that's preferable.

And the list goes on...

AND IN MY OPINION! They have to understand, that the 14 days-rule counts from the last ever post (regardless of the member who posted it), not by their last post. I've seen many times, sellers bumping a thread (because their last post was indeed 14 days ago), but the previous post from another member was the same day!!!

@ Arnljot

Great to have you back again friend. Hope that everything is okay with life.

 

[miggymad]

Coolio

@Davideo

Bump rules AND proof of ownership stickies? Yes please!

Have a look at this thread https://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?354-Please-read-me-before-posting