What if Commodore..
- Thread starter Beavis
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Justin
Active member
well interestingly Dave Haynie stated that the PPC is not an amiga, so if Amiga survived i guess Dave would have designed it and so it wouldn't have gone PPC or Motorolla, i think that would have gone intel as big C was already using intels in thier desktop PCs
and this in from Dave
"You didn't do video editing on an Amiga without serious add-on hardware.
Most folks using Amigas for video were doing analog video, too... digital was barely there at the end. You could use a Genlock for titling, other devices to overlay effects on video, etc. but it was still tape to tape. That wasn't for the feint of heart, and while it was revolutionary for a small number of video professionals, it was only a precursor to today's video revolution, which required digital capabilities.
An Amiga with today's hardware specs would be just like a Macintosh with today's hardware specs: it would be a PC. Guaranteed. Near the end, we were already moving toward using as many commodity parts are possible: PC power supplies, disc drives, etc. Future systems were going to use the PCI bus"
and this in from Dave
"You didn't do video editing on an Amiga without serious add-on hardware.
Most folks using Amigas for video were doing analog video, too... digital was barely there at the end. You could use a Genlock for titling, other devices to overlay effects on video, etc. but it was still tape to tape. That wasn't for the feint of heart, and while it was revolutionary for a small number of video professionals, it was only a precursor to today's video revolution, which required digital capabilities.
An Amiga with today's hardware specs would be just like a Macintosh with today's hardware specs: it would be a PC. Guaranteed. Near the end, we were already moving toward using as many commodity parts are possible: PC power supplies, disc drives, etc. Future systems were going to use the PCI bus"
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I believe that most of the modern consoles have PowerPC chips in them - certainly the Wii and XBox360, so PowerPC is still out there.
I agree that the AGA chipset did not go far enough in 1992 and that Workbench was carrying the hardware for the following years, but if it had survived I think that we would have been running PowerPC hardware; like a Wii with a keyboard
On a related point, *IF* the Amiga line had continued, would there still be a market for it today? Is the advantage of co-processing custom chips as great today as it was, or can PCs now do pretty much anything at such a low price point that we will never see any alternative now or in the future?
PCs simply started using the Amigaish idea of coprocessors.
What is a GPU if not a mega-blitter?
Then as much as I really hate to point this out... What C=USA were doing wasn't too far from where Commodore would have actually taken things then. Of course I would imagine they would have had custom chipsets of some kind on their mainboards and a kickass OS akin to MacOSX. Fundamentally, in terms of hardware, they would have been using mostly off-the-shelf main components nonetheless.
Of course I still don't support such a crappy insult to Commodores name. There are plenty of reasons for that other than simply hardware.
Justin
Active member
yes C=USA weren't far off, also if you think back the Amiga MCC was going to use an Amiga themed linux os, then yep they were actually right on the money
commodorejohn
Shameless recidivist
The original XBox was an x86 (a Pentium III, basically.) They moved to PPC for the 360.
As for this "x86 was the future, CUSA was right!" thing: who says that the way things have gone is the way things had to go? You might as well argue that France should've just handed over the Louisiana territories to the US at the earliest opportunity because hey, it was going to happen anyway.
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Justin
Active member
not saying they were right, it is just my opinion going on the information i have, it is how i reach my opinion, find out the facts that i can and come to a conclusion that may or may not be right.
i am of course willing to change my opinion when presented with new facts
Amiga may have continued down the custom chip path and ran a native PPC based OS, but i feel that the way things were going before C= ended was heading towards an "off the shelf" machine with a Apple-esque OS.
i am of course willing to change my opinion when presented with new facts
Amiga may have continued down the custom chip path and ran a native PPC based OS, but i feel that the way things were going before C= ended was heading towards an "off the shelf" machine with a Apple-esque OS.
tokyoracer
(Not actually from Tokyo).
Knowing Commodore I highly doubt they'd keep the "Amiga" name, infact I would have bet if they have PPC CPU's they would have changed the name as soon as they fitted them to represent a new range.
Though almost certainly they would have gone Intel, probably earlier then Apple (before G5 I reckon).
The fact that Commodore were making PC's the whole time anyway, it's entirely likely they would have just dropped the Amiga all together and just continued their PC line. Especially as Apple were severely crippled trying to keep their Macs alive before Jobs returned.
Though almost certainly they would have gone Intel, probably earlier then Apple (before G5 I reckon).
The fact that Commodore were making PC's the whole time anyway, it's entirely likely they would have just dropped the Amiga all together and just continued their PC line. Especially as Apple were severely crippled trying to keep their Macs alive before Jobs returned.
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The Amiga sold better than the commodore PCs ever did.
Though I'm willing to bet the Commodore PCs did a wonderful job at discouraging potential customers, Amiga, C= PC or C64 alike. After all, if you were truly confidant in your own products you wouldn't constantly knock off another's.
RE: Dave Haynie's comments.
It is important to remember he was talking about what the next step after the 1200/4000 was going to be, and also what a modern Amiga would be in the computer industry that exists today.
The 1200/4000 are events in the path that killed commodore, so it is irrelevant. A Commodore with it's act together would have taken a far different path, and so would the entire industry!
It is like asking what year Hitler would be born, in a timeline where humans never existed.
Though I'm willing to bet the Commodore PCs did a wonderful job at discouraging potential customers, Amiga, C= PC or C64 alike. After all, if you were truly confidant in your own products you wouldn't constantly knock off another's.
RE: Dave Haynie's comments.
It is important to remember he was talking about what the next step after the 1200/4000 was going to be, and also what a modern Amiga would be in the computer industry that exists today.
The 1200/4000 are events in the path that killed commodore, so it is irrelevant. A Commodore with it's act together would have taken a far different path, and so would the entire industry!
It is like asking what year Hitler would be born, in a timeline where humans never existed.
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So are we saying that the original advantage that the Amiga had with fully integrated hardware components is no longer viable because of the sheer power/price of the focused discreet components?
I guess it makes sense as in the beginning C= we're saying that they could make the best graphics chip in the world AND the best sound chip in the world AND the best IO chips. You just can't do that consistently over a long period of time if you are a niche player to start with.
Based on this, the pc hardware is all we will ever have and the only difference is the os running on it. Shame
I guess it makes sense as in the beginning C= we're saying that they could make the best graphics chip in the world AND the best sound chip in the world AND the best IO chips. You just can't do that consistently over a long period of time if you are a niche player to start with.
Based on this, the pc hardware is all we will ever have and the only difference is the os running on it. Shame
Justin
Active member
yes but we are talking about "what ifs" so we are guessing as to what may have happened, on this basis anything is possible, any hardware config, any software, nothing is wrong as such.
you can say that the whole topic is mute and rather pointless, and you would be correct, but it is fun and interesting to converse with others and to hear/read their point of view
---------- Post added at 22:07 ---------- Previous post was at 22:01 ----------
So are we saying that the original advantage that the Amiga had with fully integrated hardware components is no longer viable because of the sheer power/price of the focused discreet components?
I guess it makes sense as in the beginning C= we're saying that they could make the best graphics chip in the world AND the best sound chip in the world AND the best IO chips. You just can't do that consistently over a long period of time if you are a niche player to start with.
Based on this, the pc hardware is all we will ever have and the only difference is the os running on it. Shame
todays computer scene is just that, pretty much the same hardware but running different OSes, i don't see how Amiga still being around would be any different.
sheer processing power and speed is a good thing for me, i loved my miggies back in the back and still have a soft spot for them to this day, but i actually don't much like using the original hardware, for me i find them too be too slow and clunky, please don't get me wrong, i have no issue at all with people still using these great machines and i am very happy to see them being used, restored and kept alive, it just isn't for me, i happen to like emulation (don't stone me!)
as they say "each to their own" and long may we all be different
Ahh, this old chestnut again.
In summary:
1. If Amiga was still going today, it would probably have followed a simlar path to what Mac did. They'd probably be trendy PCs running a far superior OS.
2. Apple ditched PPC because of a lack of a way forward for laptops. They'd pushed G4 to its limits, but G5 was never efficient or cool enough to run in a laptop, so they jumped ship.
In summary:
1. If Amiga was still going today, it would probably have followed a simlar path to what Mac did. They'd probably be trendy PCs running a far superior OS.
2. Apple ditched PPC because of a lack of a way forward for laptops. They'd pushed G4 to its limits, but G5 was never efficient or cool enough to run in a laptop, so they jumped ship.
yes but we are talking about "what ifs" so we are guessing as to what may have happened, on this basis anything is possible, any hardware config, any software, nothing is wrong as such.
you can say that the whole topic is mute and rather pointless, and you would be correct, but it is fun and interesting to converse with others and to hear/read their point of view
You've completely misunderstood what I meant, so I'll have another go.
Dave was thinking in two terms: What Amiga he'd design today, in the computer industry that exists today. And what Amiga he would have designed if commodore stuck around a bit longer.
Both are flawed thinking. If he was in a position to design an Amiga in the present day, then something big would have had to have changed to put him there. You cannot assume, after such a massive yet unspecified change, that anything else would be the same.
Same for some new model if they stuck around a bit longer. The only way they could have stuck around a bit longer would be to have done something significantly different, but his hypothetical system is imagined from if they didn't. It is a paradox.
You can have as much fun speculating as you like, but you have to understand the changes that would allow your hypothetical A5000T (or whatever) couldn't exist in a vacuum.
You can't stop old man Biff from stealing the almanac in 2015, because you're in 1985A! So you cannot assume an Intel Amiga would happen in 2013A, just because that chip won in normal 2013.
The most interesting thing is to figure out what "grays sports almanac" would have had to show up to save Commodore. Once that shows up all bets are off.
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Justin
Active member
ah but it you curved time and went to the point before the time event happened then it could be altered, remember curve, don't go back
i would have to disagree#such is my nature#
if amiga had still been around they would probably still be 68k,they didnt change at all from the start.
so what makes people think they would of changed anything
my way of thinking it was doomed after so many years of the same over and over,even the decent cpu cards where third party.
commodore had nothing.
and when they did have anything,it was too little far too late.
as for emulation..i wouldnt say that running an emulated amiga on a pc at 3.2 "gigahertz" to get a amiga at few hundred "megahertz" is the way forward
just my 2 cents.
but hey,everyone to there own,as others have said.
This is perhaps more the reason why things went the way they did, and therefore a bit off topic.
but for those who do not know,
this could be interesting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1-Cp-A1ng0
http://www.commodore.ca/commodore-history/mehdi-ali-the-end-of-commodore/
From time to time I wish Commodore Amiga was with us, and not as a PC imitation.
to know how Commodore just ****ed themself down in the dirt makes me very frustrated at times
They had a wonderful grasp on the market
If they had cut out the PC Manufacturing and focused on Amiga when they got it served, no one can ride a herd of horses
If I could buy a new Amiga today, with its own chipset
with a new and innovative workbench.
In my dreams
but for those who do not know,
this could be interesting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1-Cp-A1ng0
http://www.commodore.ca/commodore-history/mehdi-ali-the-end-of-commodore/
From time to time I wish Commodore Amiga was with us, and not as a PC imitation.
to know how Commodore just ****ed themself down in the dirt makes me very frustrated at times
They had a wonderful grasp on the market
If they had cut out the PC Manufacturing and focused on Amiga when they got it served, no one can ride a herd of horses
If I could buy a new Amiga today, with its own chipset
with a new and innovative workbench.
In my dreams
