C64 reloaded by Jens
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I think people are kind of missing the point here. Just because WE can't see a need or reason for this, Doesn't mean that Jen's has finally gone over the edge! Jen's is a smart guy, he would not invest the time, development and money into a product that makes no sense. I think because we are mostly Amiga guys here, we cant see this from a C64 collector.
Just because I can't see an actual point of purchasing this, doesn't mean it doesn't warren merit. I can't see the point at all of buying a Mini-Meg, but hundreds of people have them and love them.
I have the opinion, that Jen's should solely focus his attention on Graphics, Network, and accelerator cards for the Amiga because those will always sell, but hey what do I know
Just because I can't see an actual point of purchasing this, doesn't mean it doesn't warren merit. I can't see the point at all of buying a Mini-Meg, but hundreds of people have them and love them.
I have the opinion, that Jen's should solely focus his attention on Graphics, Network, and accelerator cards for the Amiga because those will always sell, but hey what do I know
I actually think this is a nice product and an interesting new direction for Individual Computers.
This C64 board is a similar concept to the GB1000 board which itself is very cool
Yep the price of this board seems a bit high but we all know that Jens isn't in the retro scene to make lots of money, it's obviously more a labour of love for him.
As mentioned by Jens over on EAB, this product should just be the start of replacement drop-in motherboards for retro computers. If Jens does get around to creating a new A1200 motherboard then I'm pretty sure he wouldn't just do an exact copy, there's a strong chance that he'll want to improve the original design with some extras (scan-doubler, Fix-Express etc).
This C64 board is a similar concept to the GB1000 board which itself is very cool
Yep the price of this board seems a bit high but we all know that Jens isn't in the retro scene to make lots of money, it's obviously more a labour of love for him.
As mentioned by Jens over on EAB, this product should just be the start of replacement drop-in motherboards for retro computers. If Jens does get around to creating a new A1200 motherboard then I'm pretty sure he wouldn't just do an exact copy, there's a strong chance that he'll want to improve the original design with some extras (scan-doubler, Fix-Express etc).
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I've not really got back to speed with amibay after the upgrade, my workflow was interrupted and I'm trailing a bit behind that. As someone who has a c64 which he cherishes and is considering this despite its price compared to a change that isn't revolutionary.
However, one thing the new board doesn't fix is the fact that this discussion went two ways. One way was "debating the product", and the other major way was "debating jens". For those who doesn't care about "debating jens", most of the content of this thread was just "fluff" that removes what value this thread has to discuss the topic at hand.
Now, I believe it is always like that. I'm usually on top of threads, and doesn't have to browse ten pages at once. Just felt slightly annoyed having to browse ten pages and realize no points have been made according to the topic beside the initial feature list, the rest of the posts had no value to the topic. (By all means, I'm probably contributing to this on a general basis)
However, one thing the new board doesn't fix is the fact that this discussion went two ways. One way was "debating the product", and the other major way was "debating jens". For those who doesn't care about "debating jens", most of the content of this thread was just "fluff" that removes what value this thread has to discuss the topic at hand.
Now, I believe it is always like that. I'm usually on top of threads, and doesn't have to browse ten pages at once. Just felt slightly annoyed having to browse ten pages and realize no points have been made according to the topic beside the initial feature list, the rest of the posts had no value to the topic. (By all means, I'm probably contributing to this on a general basis)
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yeah, i think i would rather have a SUPER CPU or REU.
than a remake,whats wrong with making those?
you know,something useful...its not like no-one knows the problems with old power supply's.
i wonder if the warranty extends to the parts on the board,they are upto 30 years old...
than a remake,whats wrong with making those?
you know,something useful...its not like no-one knows the problems with old power supply's.
i wonder if the warranty extends to the parts on the board,they are upto 30 years old...
The product is not that bad. It's a good thing there is development for C64. IMHO it's just too expensive.
Now it's too expensive and lack features which could make it good for case modifies units. PCB could be shorter. The PCB is the most expensive part.
Places for dual SID, SD2IEC and AEC video filter components would be neat (if not already populated). Also ESD protection to all ports is a must have feature.
Using original CPU, VIC-II and SID is a good feature. Then it is kind of running on real hardware and not emulated. Parts are not that hard to come by. I have collected 13 units in less than a year. Cheapest costing only *** Some of the units are busted but can share spare chips.
Now it's too expensive and lack features which could make it good for case modifies units. PCB could be shorter. The PCB is the most expensive part.
Places for dual SID, SD2IEC and AEC video filter components would be neat (if not already populated). Also ESD protection to all ports is a must have feature.
Using original CPU, VIC-II and SID is a good feature. Then it is kind of running on real hardware and not emulated. Parts are not that hard to come by. I have collected 13 units in less than a year. Cheapest costing only *** Some of the units are busted but can share spare chips.
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That's okay nick, I wont take any grievance over you implying I am racist
Does anyone know the current of the 12VDC input of this board once populated.... as its stands when bought it is very efficient with power.... with it not being able to power up out of the box....
no idea,but it can handle reu's and super cpu's and any other addon.with power to spare.
yes,lads that was a good point for this.
but,that is down to the power supply like anything else,it can be done on the original.
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I think that leaving out solid state support was a mistake. It wouldn't have added too much to the cost to add SD Card support to the board and then it would have been a more attractive proposition.
#jus'sayin'
#jus'sayin'
i agree,i know people will say yeah but that's a cheap addon anyway.
the thing is, that is a two way sword if its cheap then it can be added.
there is nothing wrong with making a product "more attractive" to buyer,adding a feature that is not there to start with is a bonus.
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+1
SD2IEC / vga output might have made this a good buy, but the same as the original and then missing parts
on another "dubious" subject.
Why not do an Apollo 040/060 pcb. populated with mach 131/bios/switchable Voltage reg. 5v / 3.3vand imbedded 64mb ram, an Amiga 500+ / A4000 pcb for all those eaten by Acid now that's something I would buy and there would be a reason to buy those, you could add IDE / Ram to the A500+ from the CPU socket with a licenced Kick 3.1 and even make an ACA530 . I mean how many C64 PCB's have failed ? I don't know of any, it's always been chip failure due to age / PSU.
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protek
"Takai desu ne." -"Jinsei da."
+1 for SD support.
Also the requirement for having to have your own SID, 6510 and I suppose VIC too is not a very good solution. For example, to my understanding, the Harlequin is a drop in replacement for Spectrum motherboard and it uses completely off the shelf parts (with the exception of Z80, I think). Do correct me, if I'm wrong. Of course it does present a challenge to re-implement the custom chips and CPU with modern parts but it should be doable.
Regarding Apollo. To my understanding, Jens feels very strongly about the Apollo. On the other hand I wouldn't mind if he came up with his own solution for 060 accelerator for A3000/4000.
Also the requirement for having to have your own SID, 6510 and I suppose VIC too is not a very good solution. For example, to my understanding, the Harlequin is a drop in replacement for Spectrum motherboard and it uses completely off the shelf parts (with the exception of Z80, I think). Do correct me, if I'm wrong. Of course it does present a challenge to re-implement the custom chips and CPU with modern parts but it should be doable.
Regarding Apollo. To my understanding, Jens feels very strongly about the Apollo. On the other hand I wouldn't mind if he came up with his own solution for 060 accelerator for A3000/4000.
^ heh, don't even mention Apollo to Jens.... remember that he bought the schematics/code for them in order to abolish them from the face of the earth? Remember that he was asking 150eur in order to sell MACH replacements to people that have damaged ones?
And to comment some previous posts , ofcourse people will spend a good portion on this thread to judge not only the product in question but also the manufacturer. This time the manufacturer part had a larger portion because the product part doesn't have much to discuss other than that it's a pointless one. It doesn't even have a PLA clone to my understanding (or does the "The PLA and video chips are also in zero-insertion-force sockets, so they can be exchanged easily" part means that these are already included?)
In no way this is compared to the GB1000 replacement mobo, the GB1000 offered a massive upgrade to the A1000 not only in cpu but in added functionality as well. The "C64 Reloaded" offers SVHS, PAL/NTSC, a 5eur 12v psu and a socket for the VSP-Fix which will probably be a sanded GAL or something...
And to comment some previous posts , ofcourse people will spend a good portion on this thread to judge not only the product in question but also the manufacturer. This time the manufacturer part had a larger portion because the product part doesn't have much to discuss other than that it's a pointless one. It doesn't even have a PLA clone to my understanding (or does the "The PLA and video chips are also in zero-insertion-force sockets, so they can be exchanged easily" part means that these are already included?)
In no way this is compared to the GB1000 replacement mobo, the GB1000 offered a massive upgrade to the A1000 not only in cpu but in added functionality as well. The "C64 Reloaded" offers SVHS, PAL/NTSC, a 5eur 12v psu and a socket for the VSP-Fix which will probably be a sanded GAL or something...
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Good point on the Harlequin
Regarding the Apollo's, dont get me started, The Apollo has less compatibility issues than the ACA's lol.
Regarding the Apollo's, dont get me started, The Apollo has less compatibility issues than the ACA's lol.
Retrograde
Member
Hmm, well if everything but CPU plus SID is included it could work for me personally to get me a "fresh" C64.
Since I have one C64 late PCB that looks like all hell but the SID is tested working, and I'm assuming the 6510 is OK too, soldered to the board so a hassle to remove for me, but still.
I guess for some other people it's the other way around, they managed to get a decent board but lacking SID.
I'll hold off til someone actually has tested these things for a while.
Since I have one C64 late PCB that looks like all hell but the SID is tested working, and I'm assuming the 6510 is OK too, soldered to the board so a hassle to remove for me, but still.
I guess for some other people it's the other way around, they managed to get a decent board but lacking SID.
I'll hold off til someone actually has tested these things for a while.
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these old c64's arnt that hard to fix,ive done 4 in the last week.
fixing and soldering isnt that difficult,the diagnostics can be a little tricky though.
i think the old horror story's on the net don't help with dead pla's and memory problems up at the top...on top of bad power supply's
if i put every problem from every board together i think people will find anything can fail on them.
just like any piece of old electronics.
i think its been blown out of proportion,these take a really long time before failure i mean decades,you cant say that for a laptop or lcd tv or even a simple fridge freezer can you?
fixing and soldering isnt that difficult,the diagnostics can be a little tricky though.
i think the old horror story's on the net don't help with dead pla's and memory problems up at the top...on top of bad power supply's
if i put every problem from every board together i think people will find anything can fail on them.
just like any piece of old electronics.
i think its been blown out of proportion,these take a really long time before failure i mean decades,you cant say that for a laptop or lcd tv or even a simple fridge freezer can you?
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Let me reiterate what Merlin said a few pages ago. Keep it clean and keep it civil! Opinions about the hardware are fine, but let's leave the personal insults out.
I've just gone through this thread and pruned about four pages of trolling and rubbish. If you have a grievance with another member, resolve it in PM, not in the threads. If you find a post to be rude, threatening or offensive, you can always report it to the staff.
Next person to take this thread off-topic and into ad-hominem attacks against a fellow member will earn themself a week's ban.
Anyway, back on topic:
I don't want to get too bogged down in price details but, to my mind, for a new product like this one there's always got to be a suitable ratio of cost to features. Looking at this, it doesn't look like it offers a great deal more than a stock C64 motherboard would. As such, I'm not sure I see the value in it.
As I'm more of an Amiga person, I'll draw my parallels there. If you could manufacture a replacement motherboard for the A1200, it would either need to be roughly around the same price as a second-hand board if it was a similar spec; or if you wanted to command a higher price tag, you'd need to add some worthwhile features to it. If Jens designed an A1200 motherboard with built in Fast-ATA, Indivision and ACA functionality, that would be one fine piece of hardware and well worth a decent asking price.
Over at EAB Jens has said that image quality issues will be addressed, and some headers will be added for internal IEC devices, stereo SID and maybe other things. Those and the easier power supply make this seem like a more worthwhile board than it initially seemed (to me). Have to wait and see what the final specs and price are like.
