ptyerman
Member
No we're not though. Granted it looks like Cameron is finished whichever way it goes, but we'll still be stuck with the conservative party and the same policy's, it sucks.
Implications of Brexit
- Thread starter protek
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What's with all the Corbyn bashing?
He at least has stood up and voted against some of the horrendous policies this tory government has tried to force through while most of the Blairites have voted with the tory's dreadful ideas.
Something to think about is that if you don't use your vote to get a decent government, then you will allow the ones that are in power at the moment to continue to shaft the rest of us for another 5 years. Not something to be proud of when your vote and others like your mates could possibly have made a difference UK wide.
Back on topic,
I am voting out in the hope that TTIP will not come to fruition although the likes of Camoron is keen to let it happen.
PS I did misspell a certain name deliberately.
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People moan about having a Tory government, but then 35% of the country didn't even vote in the last election. That's over a third on the population! People can't moan if they didn't even bother to vote!
The EU was always a great idea, but was never going to work properly as it currently exists. Yes they have a single currency and free flowing movement. But it would only ever work properly if each country became a proper member state, with the whole EU run from a single central government. This will not happen because each country has a unique nationality and identity which they will always fight to defend. It will therefore always be a half hearted union.
If there is one thing good about the EU it is human rights. And many don't know that it was the UK whom drafted and created the European Court of Human Rights at the end of the second world war to protect against such atrocities happening again. We owe a lot to this, such as a right to 4 weeks paid holiday. However the current scare tactics of the stay campaign saying we would lose such laws is complete rubbish. We have already set such things into law and it would require the government to pass a bill to remove it. So such scare tactics are rubbish.
I personally don't see a benefit from continuing to be a member of the EU and will be voting to leave.
This feeling has been heightened by the push to allow Turkey to join. A county that isn't stable, doesn't have a stable economy, good human rights record or any workers rights. They will gain massively from joining, but at what expensive to the rest of Europe?
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The EU was always a great idea, but was never going to work properly as it currently exists. Yes they have a single currency and free flowing movement. But it would only ever work properly if each country became a proper member state, with the whole EU run from a single central government. This will not happen because each country has a unique nationality and identity which they will always fight to defend. It will therefore always be a half hearted union.
If there is one thing good about the EU it is human rights. And many don't know that it was the UK whom drafted and created the European Court of Human Rights at the end of the second world war to protect against such atrocities happening again. We owe a lot to this, such as a right to 4 weeks paid holiday. However the current scare tactics of the stay campaign saying we would lose such laws is complete rubbish. We have already set such things into law and it would require the government to pass a bill to remove it. So such scare tactics are rubbish.
I personally don't see a benefit from continuing to be a member of the EU and will be voting to leave.
This feeling has been heightened by the push to allow Turkey to join. A county that isn't stable, doesn't have a stable economy, good human rights record or any workers rights. They will gain massively from joining, but at what expensive to the rest of Europe?
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ptyerman
Member
And who are you to tell me or anyone what to do with there vote? For your information, I did vote at the last election, and will vote at the next, but it won't be for comrade Corbyn! To me, that only leaves UKIP. Not ideal but it's the only way to go until Labour gets it act together!
Corbyn will get strong support from his core left wing vote. However he will not win the centre ground vote at all. Whatever you think of Tony Blair, he grasped the need to take back the centre ground, as without that, you cant win an election.
The big problem with Corbyn as leader is that because he doesn't appeal to the centreground, it effectively leaves the labour party unelectable to government. This is currently giving the tories a free pass to fight amongst themselves and do what they like without fear of really being punished at the ballot box.
I've been watching this thread for a few days now, expecting it to be closed any minute as politics can bring out the worst in some. It's refreshing to see it still open and the debate fairly well balanced. Reading through the comments I believe Harrison has summed up my feelings the closest. I've been saying for years 'Love Europe, Hate the EU'. I believe in democracy, accountability and sovereignty - three things we will never have while we remain part of the bloc. Also, the EU commission is like Congress in America - just a lobbying playground for the big corporations and banks to get the laws and legislation they want. Why do you think it's always the big companies, Wall Street investment banks, multinationals that are campaigning for us to stay in? I'm not going to say that our elected officials aren't just as corrupt with endless backhanders and secret meetings with party 'donors'. The difference is, as has been mentioned before, we can vote out any Government whom we feel is working against the interest of the people. You cannot vote out the EU bureaucrats.
On a personal level, I believe the result will be for remain. Not because we, the people, voted for it. Because the establishment want it to happen... If you see what I mean? I really hope I'm proved wrong!
On a personal level, I believe the result will be for remain. Not because we, the people, voted for it. Because the establishment want it to happen... If you see what I mean? I really hope I'm proved wrong!
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ptyerman
Member
That's because the jokers in power both past and present allow it. Most folk would just say throw em to the dogs.
You forgot Human Rights lawyers. They're the worst of the lost as they win regardless of who loses...
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jack-3d
kLik me
UK please be the first brave one, hopefully others will follow then.
I think this is a certainty of UK leave, kind of like a house of cards, other will leave.
ptyerman
Member
Don't get your hopes up too much just yet. There is still 10 days to go and 99% of big business/corporations are supporting remain. Plus if the vote is for leave there's no guarantee that the Tories won't stall until the next election. They could even negate any leave vote, although that would be almost certain suicide!
DXZeff
New member
My thoughts on this whole thing;
We're screwed either way. I personally believe the world is heading for, at best, another economic crash and, at worst, a civil war.
Leaving the EU will accelerate the situation, leaving us flat broke and with some real issues to work out. I can see it causing a domino effect however, in that the remaining nations which contribute most to the EU will not do so for very long and the union will disintegrate over time.
I think in the long run we would be better off, however, as we'd then have mostly our own problems to worry abut without being obliged to help everyone else out - charity starts at home. This could take a while to stabilize though, probably wouldn't start to see much of a noticeable improvement until the latter part of my own lifespan anyway.
I may elaborate on my opinions more at a later time.
We're screwed either way. I personally believe the world is heading for, at best, another economic crash and, at worst, a civil war.
Leaving the EU will accelerate the situation, leaving us flat broke and with some real issues to work out. I can see it causing a domino effect however, in that the remaining nations which contribute most to the EU will not do so for very long and the union will disintegrate over time.
I think in the long run we would be better off, however, as we'd then have mostly our own problems to worry abut without being obliged to help everyone else out - charity starts at home. This could take a while to stabilize though, probably wouldn't start to see much of a noticeable improvement until the latter part of my own lifespan anyway.
I may elaborate on my opinions more at a later time.
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Merkel is the puppet of Putin and we need to be very very aware of the weakening of the EU by all this in fighting. I agree that to leave would be stupid but I am fed up with the unlimited amounts of un vetted and unchecked criminals coming into our countries and causing social and and econical problems and who knows what future problems. I have fought for my country in various locations and wonder why our young men and women fight to protect a country that is determinded to do everything it can to destory itself. What is needed is a very very aggressive rebuild of the EU a Life time ban on Turkey every joining anything other than the single market.
Cameron and that criminal Blair must never be allowed to have full control of our countries the damage they have done over that last 17 years will take 50 years to fix. the UK and the rest of Europe needs 10-20 years to intergrate those that have come here to make a better life and 20 years to remove those here only for criminal actions or for Religious revolt. Then once we figure out how to help everyone within Europe we can concentrate on the outside world.
I dont expect people to agree but take it from an ex Soldier who served in the first Gulf war and the second we can not fix the middle east no amount of bombs bullets or money will fix it, all we are doing is adding to the death toll of inocents the really good people are staying in Iraq and syria to defend it and to rebuild not run away they are the people who will save the middle east, Africa needs the likes of Europe China Russia and of course the bully of the west the US to pay the proper rate for the resouces being stolen each year and to stop propping up evil and disgusting dictators and help Africans build a better future free of Aid and war.
The EU is our future and the Migrants are a part of it too.
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Ptyerman I am someone to tell you to vote me and my brothers my Father and grandfather and his father fought and died to give those lazy good for nothings the chance to vote only for them to fail. I believe we should do as the Aussies and make it illegal to not vote would be a start then maybe we could get a true idea of the populations views
Cameron and that criminal Blair must never be allowed to have full control of our countries the damage they have done over that last 17 years will take 50 years to fix. the UK and the rest of Europe needs 10-20 years to intergrate those that have come here to make a better life and 20 years to remove those here only for criminal actions or for Religious revolt. Then once we figure out how to help everyone within Europe we can concentrate on the outside world.
I dont expect people to agree but take it from an ex Soldier who served in the first Gulf war and the second we can not fix the middle east no amount of bombs bullets or money will fix it, all we are doing is adding to the death toll of inocents the really good people are staying in Iraq and syria to defend it and to rebuild not run away they are the people who will save the middle east, Africa needs the likes of Europe China Russia and of course the bully of the west the US to pay the proper rate for the resouces being stolen each year and to stop propping up evil and disgusting dictators and help Africans build a better future free of Aid and war.
The EU is our future and the Migrants are a part of it too.
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Ptyerman I am someone to tell you to vote me and my brothers my Father and grandfather and his father fought and died to give those lazy good for nothings the chance to vote only for them to fail. I believe we should do as the Aussies and make it illegal to not vote would be a start then maybe we could get a true idea of the populations views
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Correct answer. There is an almighty crash coming. Remember before last years election, Camermoron was stating we would get an IN/OUT vote by 2017. Then suddenly it's announced that the vote would be in 2016. Why? Because they know what's coming and if we vote out - they blame it on Brexit. If we vote in - they'll blame it on the uncertainty of Brexit.
But what's the real reason for the coming storm? Debt. And a lot of it. Lessons weren't learnt from 2007-2008 (well, unless you're a banker - they learnt if you f**k up - don't worry - the government will bail you out with tax payers money). Public and Private debt levels are still at dangerously unsustainable levels and all it'll take is one country to default and the dominoes will start to fall. Sorry to sound doom and gloomy but I'm not a politician. I tell it like it is.
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DXZeff
New member
^Now I don't need to elaborate, you've done it for me. 
I have a bad feeling that 2008 is going to seem like a damn picnic compared to where it's headed this time though.
I have a bad feeling that 2008 is going to seem like a damn picnic compared to where it's headed this time though.
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Glad I'm not the only one who can see dark clouds. I wish all of us little people well.
2008 should of been it. Instead our governments put prop after tax payer prop under the whole broken financial system (zero interest rates, quantitative easing, bail outs, bail ins - although only in Cyprus thus far), all short term fixes with no long term thinking (just elections to buy). The usual political stance of 'kicking the can far enough down the road that it'll be someone else's problem'.
If you're in the mood for it - search out the documentary 'Inside Job', it'll explain how and why 2008 happened and that it's going to happen again. Be warned though, your blood will boil...
Hope I've managed to cheer everyone up...
2008 should of been it. Instead our governments put prop after tax payer prop under the whole broken financial system (zero interest rates, quantitative easing, bail outs, bail ins - although only in Cyprus thus far), all short term fixes with no long term thinking (just elections to buy). The usual political stance of 'kicking the can far enough down the road that it'll be someone else's problem'.
If you're in the mood for it - search out the documentary 'Inside Job', it'll explain how and why 2008 happened and that it's going to happen again. Be warned though, your blood will boil...
Hope I've managed to cheer everyone up...
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