Implications of Brexit

[Pgovotsos]

Cugar124 there's an awful lot of people here that would be quite happy if the US would stay out of other country's business. I think a lot of us see that whenever the US has interfered the situation has always gotten worse, especially for the indigenous population. I'd like to _think_ that the politicians have good intentions but we all know where good intentions lead. I think their intentions are actually probably only for personal gain and gain for the "money men". As you say, disgusting.

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I should add that what I wrote above is NOT how I personally feel about any European. My father may have his feelings based on his experiences and the rest is assumptions (probably wrong as many usually are) from what I read. Other than traveling to Nova Scotia, I've never been out of the US since childhood so have no direct experience to form any true opinion. My only experience and interactions with Europeans has been here. Based on you guys, as far as I can tell, if you're even remotely representative of Europeans, they must be good people.

Dang it, I read over what I wrote and it sounds so ignorant and offensive. I don't know the right way to phrase any of this and I don't mean to be offensive and patronizing. I just don't know how to ask how anyone besides the politicians thought that this process was going to be a lovey dovey journey, landing in bed of roses without hitting some thorns along the way. How do ask questions like this without sounding like a snot or a jerk?

I want to just delete what I wrote

No need to apologise for having an opinion my friend! As the old saying goes, "I may not agree with you but I'll defend, to the death, your right to say it".

That's just it, I don't really have an opinion on it. Maybe that's pathetic or something but if I had to claim an opinion, it would be that it's your country and none of my business. I am curious how it was _supposed_ to work. On the surface, from this distance, with information filtered by a biased, manipulative press doing the bidding of the elites Cugar124 referred to, how could I possibly have any true information to draw any kind of valid conclusion other than "I don't know"?

I hate politics and usually avoid it because I don't know what I'm talking about and as usual stuck my foot in my mouth right up to my knee. By now, you'd think I'd have learned to just stay out of it!

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ie mind my own business

 

[cugar124]

Just as a complete off topic ever wondered if Hollywood is used to see if the US can get away with stuff?

I will explain think of Terminator OK your in the zone now predator drones anyone see the similarities OK at the moment they are controlled by Humans well so we are being told but the new gen get on target without any human control how long before they are not needed for target destruction. Also the us are via Google rushing to Trucks being controlled by computers the UK goverment have just changed policies to allow these Godless machines to use our roads so that road and air also the US is developing robots that carry weapons to combat so in the next few years that's soldiers but funny no one is protesting about these could it be that we have been taught that it is part of our development just something to ponder. Ask why are the Elite in the US so determined to develop this tech and why are the EU helping them, Then ask the human question 100s of thousands of jobs lost billions of pounds/dollars lost so why do we need the tech? If you don't work you cant buy!! What jobs do these guys do to support themselves so they don't starve?

 

[Amon_RA]

It's sickening to read the amount of anti-german propaganda here. Let's blame the Germans for everything because they started a war more than 70! years ago... Newflash : The war ended in 1945...

Many Americans are from German descent, are they all bad people by definition too?

I'm Belgian, my family also fought and died in the war... yet I have no problem with Germans whatsoever, or hold a grudge against them.

Belgians did some horrible things in Africa, do you views us the same way too? Is the current generation responsible for what happened in the past? Do you really believe that?

 

[cugar124]

Sorry Amon_RA you completely miss the point but maybe its not made very well,

Germany is abusing its financial power to push the EU in the direction it wants it to go Look at Greece Look at Poland Look at Britain its aggressive stance towards those countries because we disagree Germany starts jumping up and down the EU is a group of Nations not One Nation. As for Belgians only every been there Once Nice enough place but has done well from the EU. And since its creation in 1830 has seen some horrible things. I have as I have said about Americans no problems with the German people would be difficult as my sister was born there and my current girlfriend would love to move there and I suppose as I have spoken in German due to my service there and my fathers service, what I do have a problem with is the German machine! since 1989 Germany has changed and not for the better, as for the blaming for old things I could not agree more just a shame the younger generations here and in the US are holding us to ransom for the past!
What I do blame is the repeating of those mistakes Afghanistan Iraq Syria shall I keep going that's without the whole African issues. I Have seen that's with my Eyes not the media's what our wars have done to these once wonderful lands and it does not make me proud it makes me angry my Brothers and sisters gave their lives for what I gave my health for what to see millions killed Christians destroyed and 100's of thousands left scared because we failed to act correctly and because we were happy to turn a blind eye when the oil and resources were coming freely.

Besides this gets away from the point of the thread Britians options to leave not Belgium's you guys would be crazy to leave but us we have our own reasons.

Pgovotsos
I understand why you stay away from it and its a real shame that the US has become how it is and that it filters so much real news from guys like yourselves but threads like this give you an idea of what to research to get a real feel for the world and not my biased or your elites biased opinions and I would like to stress these are my Opinions and I have fought so that others can have there own feel free to disagree or to prove them wrong it will make me a better person and help others to form their own.

 

[SaviorX]

Guv: You can say what you like about the filthy, stinking, treacherous, German hun. But you have to respect 'em.
Marcel: No! Do not fill my French ear with such words.
[Marcel spits on the floor]
Guv: Yea, you have to respect 'em, you don't have to capitulate quite so often but you have to respect 'em. You see the thing about the Germans is it's all above board, they're perfectly clear about what they're ambition is, it's world domination! By any means possible. They're up to something, but they're telling us about it. Not like you lot, sneaking around, I mean look at the words that the French have given the English, "espionage", "sabotage", "camouflage", "fromage".

[shouts]
Guv: You're up to somethin'!

 

[cugar124]

oui your Canadian you are the good guys!! upset no one keep the US in their place and give the EU people fed up with the Bull here somewhere to go and prosper now if it were the Canadians I would vote stay but the yanks or the Germans I am starting to think the unthinkable to leave.

 

[ptyerman]

Up until the last few days I was undecided because of various things. But I have decided to vote leave, things can't go on like they are and there is as much chance of a EU reform as there is of platting fog!
Plus Cameron has every intention of supporting Turkey entering the EU while at the same time dodging the question when asked. He is a proven liar, time and time again, and Osbourne is the biggest failure of a chancellor ever seen. If they want to stay in, it's for their own personal gain and nothing else.

 

[CrazyC]

Oooh there are some strong feelings (in particular about germany here today) on the loose.
Despite being an out voter I have a much less personal view on this and have no problems with the other countries as such.
I still don't understand why this has to be quite as dramatic as it is being made. It is all very "if you are not my close friend then you are my enemy".
For me the UK has a slightly different history and mentality towards Europe. Why does this have to be bad thing. I feel that we often hold europe back from where it clearly wants to go, so why cant we agree to be friends with a bit more personal space. The EU can crack on towards becoming one federal state and we can all be friends.
(although incidentally I do share the same scepticism that was expressed earlier as to pushing so much different history/culture together etc)

 

[-Acid-]

So... the political leaders of the UK who decided to join EU where not elected by the British people? Was the UK forced to join by a UK dictatorship? How exactly did that work?

There was a referendum to decide it but the population were conned into it by telling them they were voting to join the EEC (that is the European Economic Community) nothing but a free trade agreement. They neglected to tell the electorate about anything else they had planned like giving up our ability to make our own laws, control immigration, deport foreign criminals and terrorists etc.

The European Union was not on the table, the country was hoodwinked into that by the government of the day by withholding all information regarding that. If they had of been upfront about what they really intended i've no doubt the vote would of told them where to shove it.

This referendum is in fact the first vote the population have had with regards to being a member of the EU.

Read this for an idea of why there is much hate for the EU (the political part not the actual countries and people).

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...sh-fishermen-allowed-two-crates-worth-50.html

 

[Amon_RA]

@cugar124: Ok, in that case I have misinterpreted your view. My apologies.

It's just a pity that EU countries can't seem to function together as a whole, and that views are so different it leads to separation instead of union.
The EU certainly has a lot of work to do, a lot of things need to change.

Luckily things like the Amiga seem to unite people cross language/country-borders

 

[DXZeff]

For the record I disagree with nearly every statement you have made in this thread. But I agree to some extent on your "anti-Germany" statement.

Unfortunately, about all the average British school will teach us about Germany is that they were in some war years ago, they had a bunch of Nazis blowing things up and they were really, really mean. Thus if you mention Germany to a lot of people, that's the first thing that comes to mind.

Personally I love Germany and the people are awesome. I don't think much to the people who run it though.

 

[-Acid-]

The EU will never ever work because no country is in it for the good of everyone else. Treaties and agreements are negotiated and signed by f.e. Germany or France when it favours them and their industries. When the UK want something and a vote is taken someone always vetoes it when it doesn't help them or their economy, each and every time Britain has asked for something (I think it's well over 150 times) another country has vetoed it. This is one of the biggest parts of why people want to leave the EU.

 

[Marmes]

All I have to say is

 

[Bryce]

The EU will never ever work because no country is in it for the good of everyone else. Treaties and agreements are negotiated and signed by f.e. Germany or France when it favours them and their industries. When the UK want something and a vote is taken someone always vetoes it when it doesn't help them or their economy, each and every time Britain has asked for something (I think it's well over 150 times) another country has vetoed it. This is one of the biggest parts of why people want to leave the EU.

The UK regularly uses their veto rights to block things, and not always even for the good of their own people.

I'll just leave this here....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...es-steel-industry-to-curry-favour-with-china/

Bryce.

 

[CrazyC]

The EU will never ever work because no country is in it for the good of everyone else.

However the population across much of Europe does seem to accept that being a good European is almost a duty - it seems to me that this generates some of the incomprehension of why the UK are arguing so much and risking leaving. We just don't seem to have that same instinct built in to us, for historical and cultural reasons.

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I still think we will vote to stay in. Almost immediately the labour party will then have to change tack and start to campaign against the TTIP treaty despite the fact that global negotiated treaties are supposedly one of the reasons to stay in, and those who wanted to keep in so as to protect consumer/workers rights will also find that actually TTIP may enable to Tories to go further as they will be able to 'blame' the EU.

I doubt now that the TTIP will come to pass given what has come to light, but many should be careful what they wish for with the EU.

 

[-Acid-]

The EU will never ever work because no country is in it for the good of everyone else. Treaties and agreements are negotiated and signed by f.e. Germany or France when it favours them and their industries. When the UK want something and a vote is taken someone always vetoes it when it doesn't help them or their economy, each and every time Britain has asked for something (I think it's well over 150 times) another country has vetoed it. This is one of the biggest parts of why people want to leave the EU.

The UK regularly uses their veto rights to block things, and not always even for the good of their own people.

I'll just leave this here....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...es-steel-industry-to-curry-favour-with-china/

Bryce.

I never said it we didn't engage in it too, but when something gets vetoed by one country you then get what they want vetoed back as revenge etc! Two our our biggest steel making plants have closed in the last year or two because of China's cheap state subsidised steel making them insolvent yet the government watches as they go under. That's my point no one does anything for the good of everyone in the EU, governments are still looking after their own because they don't believe in a United Europe.

The USA is just as it's name implies - united. Europe will never be united in that way due to all of the political and cultural clashes. History plays it's part as well going back a millennium in some cases. The USA had the advantage of uniting all of it's states before the the country/world were properly developed and industrialised making it far easier to achieve and they had no language and customs barriers to overcome, not to mention they came together to fight a common enemy and rid themselves of the British Empire. Most of Europe has been at war with each other for long periods of time at some stage in history which, although it shouldn't, still breeds distrust of each other especially when it comes to politics.

 

[kariverson]

You should lead by example and get the hell out of this damned Union. Rid yourself of the EU overlords and win your independence back. Others countries would follow. Unfortunately though, they know what they are doing, the masses got scared and UK is gonna stay in

 

[Merlin]

The UK regularly uses their veto rights to block things, and not always even for the good of their own people.

I'll just leave this here....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...es-steel-industry-to-curry-favour-with-china/

Bryce.

Angela Merkel isn't above the odd executive decision on the part of the EU - "Wir Schaffen Das!" being one example. The decision to throw open the borders (as she effectively did) wasn't hers to make and at times Germany and France can be just as bad as the UK for trying to be the 'Tail that wags the dog'.

I hold no malice towards any of the EU states, but Merkel's decision wasn't up there with sliced bread, penecillin and the wheel, in terms of being a great idea.

 

[aPEX]

If Britain will go, they will fail, because they have no own industry. Even most of the Cars are bought by German companies.

A bank dealing with virtual money is nothing worth.

 

[bebek]

If Britain will go, they will fail, because they have no own industry. Even most of the Cars are bought by German companies.

A bank dealing with virtual money is nothing worth.

Wow, that made the choice a lot easier. Thank you .