Mockingchick: An Apple II Mockingboard clone (hopefully!)
- Thread starter Charlie
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I think I need to get out more. While waiting on my latest boards to arrive I couldn't help but fiddle further with the design:
MockingBird3V1a
Hmm... Eagle's latest update seems to have hidden / gotten rid of the Export Image function, still I can take a screen shot. If there's actually anybody wondering what the latest iteration is about I've been looking in to the various updates Yamaha produced for the AY series of sound chips usually used in the Mockingboard design...
...There's a few very interesting possibilities, some of which don't seem to available or have a data-sheet. One or two also don't carry full AY compatibility, which brings us to the YM2413. As near as I can tell it's AY compatible, and available in numbers at a sensible price. It comes in a smaller package than even the AY-3-8913 I've been using and comes with 16 voices of FM synthesis!
All being well I'll hack one of my current boards to test, and if it works I'll have have full Mockingboard compatibility with improved sound quality over the AY chips and be able to produce some really decent FM output to boot. See link to most interesting web page, examples at bottom: http://www.waveguide.se/?article=the-ym2413-fm-opll
MockingBird3V1a
...There's a few very interesting possibilities, some of which don't seem to available or have a data-sheet. One or two also don't carry full AY compatibility, which brings us to the YM2413. As near as I can tell it's AY compatible, and available in numbers at a sensible price. It comes in a smaller package than even the AY-3-8913 I've been using and comes with 16 voices of FM synthesis!
All being well I'll hack one of my current boards to test, and if it works I'll have have full Mockingboard compatibility with improved sound quality over the AY chips and be able to produce some really decent FM output to boot. See link to most interesting web page, examples at bottom: http://www.waveguide.se/?article=the-ym2413-fm-opll
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...I had a small hiccup with my IIe: The keyboard started going bananas with the auto-repeat. Happily it turned out just to be a bad C71 and replacing it fixed the issue. I found a really useful problem solving .pdf for the Apple II, if anyone wants a link let me know.
Normal service:
MockingBird V2c and Egg
Installed and Back Panel
So here's the (nearly) final-final version of the AY-3-8913 MockingBird. I can report it works perfectly, and the port mounting solution fits exactly as intended - genuinely surprised by that as I did the measuring using "#1 eyeball". I even seem to have picked the right volume control pot for it: *Edit* 2k, not 5k *Edit*, non-linear. The sharp-eyed will spot a 3k resistor in place of a System Sound - MockingBoard mixer pot, that's just because I currently don't have any and 3k seems to work well. I also seem to have run out of 6522's, spot the ancient MOS one I dug out of somewhere... *cough*
Why (nearly) final-final? Well, this is my V2c board but I've done a V3 in Eagle. The latter is functionally identical but has the IC's placed in a more pleasing arrangement, and also comes in a Yamaha flavour too... I need to do a mock-up of the latter when my YM IC's finally arrive to be sure it works.
So very nearly ready to go in to proper production: The Mockingboard is (nearly) available once again, an shouldn't be at the usual eye-watering price even retro Apple kit seems to go for.
Normal service:
MockingBird V2c and Egg
Installed and Back Panel
Why (nearly) final-final? Well, this is my V2c board but I've done a V3 in Eagle. The latter is functionally identical but has the IC's placed in a more pleasing arrangement, and also comes in a Yamaha flavour too... I need to do a mock-up of the latter when my YM IC's finally arrive to be sure it works.
So very nearly ready to go in to proper production: The Mockingboard is (nearly) available once again, an shouldn't be at the usual eye-watering price even retro Apple kit seems to go for.
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That Looks so much Better, Really like it
If you have a spare board I would love to transfer the components over from the prototype and use it as is my friend.
Congratulations
If you have a spare board I would love to transfer the components over from the prototype and use it as is my friend.
Congratulations
That Looks so much Better, Really like it
If you have a spare board I would love to transfer the components over from the prototype and use it as is my friend.
Congratulations
Thank you, and of course.
*Edit again*
For info I've taken to soldering the amp module direct the the board without any issues. Specifics:
-Sticky label on back of module (not covering the pin holes) to prevent any (small) risk of shorts with the main PCB
-Fill one of the pads on the Mockingbird PCB with solder and the same for the equivalent pad on the Amp module
-Place Amp module carefully in position and apply soldering iron to previously filled pad
(the two pads will melt and weld together)
-Repeat the process for the rest of the pads
-Check continuuity
Call me silly for not considering this before, but this is much neater / more convenient than using headers to attach the two as I did before.
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..may well be wanting one of these myself Charlie ..but got to get my recently purchased IIe fixed and returned to me first ..
The parcel was collected today ..and returned to vendor ..
Hopefully good news in the future..
What kind of 'bucks' will we looking at for a mockingchick ?
rgds
VS
The parcel was collected today ..and returned to vendor ..
Hopefully good news in the future..
What kind of 'bucks' will we looking at for a mockingchick ?
rgds
VS
Hello,
I'm sure I can scare one up for you when you're ready. On the subject AmiBay has some rules with regard to buying / selling procedure. So if / when we come to that point I guess I'll need to post one for sale on the relevant forum for you to officially express an interest in.
To any mods who are reading (yes, I know I was one once but I've got a memory like a sieve): Am I about right with the above reply? Thanks.
Thanks Charlie ..
Sadly that may be a while off yet ..
You know I recently purchased my IIe ??
..and that it had issues ..
well ..
the vendor asked me to return it in order that he might fix it.
I packed it up and did just that.. parcel force damaged it in transit ..
I'll attach a couple of pics to show what was done..
The vendor was most appologetic and is seeking compensation...and in the meantime has offered a full refund if I want it.
OR ..he is expecting another 2 weeks from the incident ..and my name would be on it ..plus he will also bundle some free software to compensate me for the distress and wait.
I agreed to the latter..having spoken at length to him on the phone.
He is genuinely upset about this ..and understandably so.
I'm sorry to invade your thread with this..but thought you might be interested in the saga..
Sadly that may be a while off yet ..
You know I recently purchased my IIe ??
..and that it had issues ..
well ..
the vendor asked me to return it in order that he might fix it.
I packed it up and did just that.. parcel force damaged it in transit ..
I'll attach a couple of pics to show what was done..
The vendor was most appologetic and is seeking compensation...and in the meantime has offered a full refund if I want it.
OR ..he is expecting another 2 weeks from the incident ..and my name would be on it ..plus he will also bundle some free software to compensate me for the distress and wait.
I agreed to the latter..having spoken at length to him on the phone.
He is genuinely upset about this ..and understandably so.
I'm sorry to invade your thread with this..but thought you might be interested in the saga..
Attachments
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sounds like he is getting another apple for you? is it a us one? you mentioned having colour in previous thread i thought.
finally!
i have assembled my mockingchick. yay!
It's in slot 4
Load choplifter... no mockingboard sound. ah.. I'm using powered external speakers.
ballblazer outputs regular apple 2 sound vis the internal speaker still, and the apple still beeps ok on boot.
Please name a test disk and or how to test this ? thanks.
in other thoughts:
1 I have mounted the amp board using pins instead of wire clippings as was neater. However I mounted the board, then found I couldnt solder one row of the AY's in as covered by the board, i think the instruction steps are back to front at that bit
2. am I supposed to add 5v in to the amp board as well? I'm not clear how to hook things up from now on, and if I want to use the internal cone speaker for left channel Ay sound, and add a second cone speaker under the keyboard for right channel. is that possible?
3. I've taken the board out to clean the flux off.. so I can hopefully try again in the week
4. lastly charlie, your boards are psychotically small! getting the 3.5mm jack in the rear is difficult. You boards meet the 'as small as possible' brief quite perfectly
i have assembled my mockingchick. yay!
It's in slot 4
Load choplifter... no mockingboard sound. ah.. I'm using powered external speakers.
ballblazer outputs regular apple 2 sound vis the internal speaker still, and the apple still beeps ok on boot.
Please name a test disk and or how to test this ? thanks.
in other thoughts:
1 I have mounted the amp board using pins instead of wire clippings as was neater. However I mounted the board, then found I couldnt solder one row of the AY's in as covered by the board, i think the instruction steps are back to front at that bit
2. am I supposed to add 5v in to the amp board as well? I'm not clear how to hook things up from now on, and if I want to use the internal cone speaker for left channel Ay sound, and add a second cone speaker under the keyboard for right channel. is that possible?
3. I've taken the board out to clean the flux off.. so I can hopefully try again in the week
4. lastly charlie, your boards are psychotically small! getting the 3.5mm jack in the rear is difficult. You boards meet the 'as small as possible' brief quite perfectly
You Don't need to add additional 5V
You can Use the internal speaker for the one channel absolutely but it must be connected ONLY to the Mockingchick and feed the Mobo's Sound Out to the Mockingchicks external input pads
Don't whinge, mine works perfectly lol... I will email you a test disk image my dear
You can Use the internal speaker for the one channel absolutely but it must be connected ONLY to the Mockingchick and feed the Mobo's Sound Out to the Mockingchicks external input pads
Don't whinge, mine works perfectly lol... I will email you a test disk image my dear
Oy, I'm not whinging, I'm whining.
and charlie asked for feedback on the construction doc, thats what that is
The board is epically small but he knows that! hence the mk 2. Mines dried out nicely and I shall take a look how to hook two internal speakers up tonight, see whats what.
ive grabbed the samples file from earlier in the thread, i assume that will do the job
and charlie asked for feedback on the construction doc, thats what that is
The board is epically small but he knows that! hence the mk 2. Mines dried out nicely and I shall take a look how to hook two internal speakers up tonight, see whats what.
ive grabbed the samples file from earlier in the thread, i assume that will do the job
Oy, I'm not whinging, I'm whining.
and charlie asked for feedback on the construction doc, thats what that is
The board is epically small but he knows that! hence the mk 2. Mines dried out nicely and I shall take a look how to hook two internal speakers up tonight, see whats what.
ive grabbed the samples file from earlier in the thread, i assume that will do the job
LOL, I Whinged to buggery so he designed the Mk2
Kids today don’t know they’re born
My New Mockingboard (full size) is now built and working like a charm...
@Charlie, Have you noticed the Samples.zip disk image I put up, the Music files play but the sound is wrong, please give it ago
@Charlie, Have you noticed the Samples.zip disk image I put up, the Music files play but the sound is wrong, please give it ago
My New Mockingboard (full size) is now built and working like a charm...
@Charlie, Have you noticed the Samples.zip disk image I put up, the Music files play but the sound is wrong, please give it ago
Hi Bas... amazingly slow reply:
Glad it's working well. Yes I did notice the same issue, although I'm at least a little revealed that I can't find any other misbehaving software. I have an untested theory: I believe the culprit is the player toggling the VIA's and so the AY IC's in an unusual way and this is sending distortion down the outputs... I think my version of the board isn't catching this because I went for a very minimal version of the output circuitry to keep the component count down. Assuming I'm correct the cure would be to replace the two electrolytic output capacitors on the daughter board with two pairs (negative sides facing each other) and then adding something like a 56k resistor to ground on the output of each channel...
...another possibility is those diodes I added to make sure the card stopped gracefully in the event of a crash/lock-up (not in the Mockingboard design) could conceivably be an issue if software driving the card keeps sending resets. The AY's don't reset on an original board and just keep playing their last instruction if not told to stop. It could be the player is using this 'feature' to perform some trickery, but on my card the AY's are resetting along with the VIA's so messing with the sound...
...I'll do some testing some time & if it works will do an updated version of the daughter board. Of course if that doesn't sort it the other possibility is the issue is being masked by the kind of amps used in the original design, which would require a redesign.
Speaking of which:
...in a moment of madness I updated the Mockingbird a bit further. No new features on the Mockingboard side, but it was annoying me that my version had no option for speech - it's just wasn't worth it to include support for a rarely used feature that requires rare and amazingly expensive IC's to do these days. So I added COVOX support to the card.
For any reading who aren't in the know the COVOX is, for want of a better phrase, a very simple software driven 8 bit DAC that found it's way on to old PC's (Atari 800's, and C=64 too I think). On a PC you could play mono samples up to CD-ish quality, although I suspect a 1mhz 6502 would struggle to come close to that. A quick 'n dirty way to allow my card to do stuff like speech, mod files, among other things.
Assuming I got the wiring right the above design defaults to Mockingboard mode, the COVOX components can be omitted if not wanted. The COVOX side uses the exact same addressing as the Mockingboard and is switched in if A10 on the expansion bus is driven high, back to Mockingboard again if switched low. Indeed, as the AY IC's will continue to do whatever they are told until told otherwise it should be possible to:
-Play the 6 Mockingbird channels as usual
-Swap to COVOX mode while that's going on to play a sample
-Swap back to Mockingboard mode to get the AY's to do the next thing
-Swap back to COVOX mode to continue the sample
...and so on. With a bit of care I guess some groovy tunes should be possible, although (depending on COVOX bit rate) the Apple may not have time for much else.
There's already COVOX aware proggies for playing mods/trackers coded for 6502, and tons of tunes, that wouldn't take much fiddling to get running on an Apple II - in theory! That's where my latest update comes unstuck - I can't code for toffee, so assuming the hardware actually works would anyone be interested in a coding project..?
PS. Examples of COVOX output:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okutUKcuilA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFtFju1Gf4w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spOenlrSSOE
...yes, PC stuff, but the principle is the same.
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Um, I've taken the plunge and ordered some boards with the latest design. Fingers crossed; assuming I've not broken the Mockingboard functionality the boards will come in handy... I can worry about software support for the COVOX side at a later date.
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