No returns, no replacements, no warranties. Private sale.

[Sardine]

I/we don't want to police the sales here at Amibay

BUT!!!!!!!

No returns, no replacements, no warranties. Private sale.

even worse

Private sale: No warranty, no guarantee, no returns, and no liability whatsoever.

Has no place here especially when item/s are upwards of €1000


My "opinion" is if you buy something described as working and in good condition it should arrive as such.

a protected/Insured postal service should be always offered as an option against physical damage during shipping and if denied by the buyer then the "caveat" No returns, no replacements, no warranties. does stand and the buyer takes the risk.


I don't like the recent sales of if the Item I descried as in perfect working order without any damages arrives in lego form it's just tuff luck.

I understand some buyers are less than honest and could claim "Hey it doesn't work" or the buyer just broke it or used it incorrectly.

I don't want Amibay to really police this but I don't think it's fair that arbitrary terms can be used as a "free get out of jail card" and if a seller tried this on a platform like eBay's terms of sale they wouldn't get very far.



Please don't discuss payment methods,, you can buy here in chocolate cookie if the seller accepts them as payment. we will NEVER enforce a particular payment method that's between the buyer and the seller. All we do is suggest it's a good idea to use a protected payment method , sending payment to a stranger halfway around the world you have never met or know.




what does everyone think ??

 

[YouKnowWho]

What if something crazy rare comes up, that's valuable, and the buyer wants it regardless of conditions?

And/or as a bonus knows the product or has skills to deal with issues (as many on here do)?

Let the two adults work it out to their satisfaction is my suggestion.

P.S A grand is not what it used to be. Can't even buy a new iPhone for that anymore.

 

[Timtheloon]

What if something crazy rare comes up, that's valuable, and the buyer wants it regardless of conditions?

And/or as a bonus knows the product or has skills to deal with issues (as many on here do)?

Let the two adults work it out to their satisfaction is my suggestion.

P.S A grand is not what it used to be. Can't even buy a new iPhone for that anymore.

I myself would not like to lose a grand of my well earned cash and to me a grand is still a lot of money.

I feel that what @Sardine is trying to get across is the seller can't just remove his or her liability to ensure the Item being sent, gets to the destination as described even if the item is non working but still carry's a high price tag due to rarity you still want it to get to the intended destination has described not in a million pieces and if sold as working it should be working.

When the sale goes wrong and the item has arrived damaged, what will most buyers expect the seller to do. let put it this way your not going to sit there and go "oh its arrived broken ah its only a grand".

 

[aaronkatrini]

Has anyone gone through with insurance claims? What results did you get back. In those few (fortunately) occasions something has gone bad, the insurance companies go through all means to not pay, they will use every excuse possible. If they haven't a good answer they just will cite a random generic excuse from the long list of their rules and then say bye bye.

Once they said to me: "oh, that item is more than 20 years old, hence it cannot be insured, thus your insurance is not valid in the first place"....

 

[comraider]

I've gone through an insurance claim for something bought on AmiBay.. and ironically it was something I bought from @Sardine!

It was damaged in transit (sent from the UK to the USA). The insurance folks wanted a "proof of purchase" and apparently didn't understand that an AmiBay thread was considered a sales listing (fair enough, it's not your typical "receipt"). But to my surprise, they said they reviewed the photos on AmiBay and the photos I had sent, and agreed to pay out the claim. I got all of my money back and was able to keep the item.

So what would have happened if the insurance said no? It depends on the circumstances for each case I think. For my item, I could tell that he had packed it well so it wasn't a case of faulty packaging.. so I wouldn't expect all my money back or anything like that, but I would expect the seller to at least talk things through with me and not just throw up their hands and say "not my problem" etc. We're a friendly community where folks should work things out. I would like us to keep that type of atmosphere, rather than having to craft rules over every possibility since that's really not feasible here. Let's just try and be good people to each other.. just my 2 cents and I say this as a member (and not in any official staff capacity or whatever)

 

[uniquefreak]

Good points and well made. I've always refunded if an item I've tested arrives (or a specified as untested item) and doesn't work. There will be users on this forum that can attest to that. I also don't pass on PP fees. If buyers want to pay with PP buyer protection, that's fine with me. Every user I've dealt with where issues arise (only a couple of times), has been willing to work with me to resolve them, before it gets to a refund/return point. If pictures are taken/videos of the items fully working and the product is packed properly. There's very little that often goes wrong. At worst, the odd memory chip or card may need reseating after transit. Buyers can also do an unboxing and/or testing video on expensive Items, to prove nothing else has occurred between unboxing and switching on. This is a community and it should be about more than just a flog it and move on scenario. We should support each other where possible. (imho).

 

[comraider]

This is a community and it should be about more than just a flog it and move on scenario. We should support each other where possible. (imho).

Totally agreed.

If a buyer discovers a fault or defect in something they buy, it's quite possible that the seller genuinely wasn't aware of the problem. And that's okay--but they should do the right thing and either take the item back or work out some compensation depending on the situation. It feels very unethical to just say "well it was as-is, so too bad".

 

[Timtheloon]

Once they said to me: "oh, that item is more than 20 years old, hence it cannot be insured, thus your insurance is not valid in the first place"....

That's absolutely shocking that they used that has an excuse to not validate paying out.

I have had a insurance claim settled for an Amibay item that I did take out postage insurance, mine wasn't for the whole amount I bought an A1200 Power tower which when arrived was damaged all the internals had come lose which damaged the ZorroIV busboard and the case was damaged too. the seller made contact with the courier they asked a lot of question on what was damaged, state of the packaging and damage on packaging.

The reason it wasn't a full pay-out was because it wasn't all damaged and some of it was working so they refunded me the cost (at the time) that I said it would cost for me to get replacements so I got just under half the money back but I was happy because I was able to acquire them parts with the insurance money.

 

[Boing-ball]

Totally agreed.

If a buyer discovers a fault or defect in something they buy, it's quite possible that the seller genuinely wasn't aware of the problem. And that's okay--but they should do the right thing and either take the item back or work out some compensation depending on the situation. It feels very unethical to just say "well it was as-is, so too bad".

This is very reminiscent of the last Thread Sardine put out about this.
So as a Member on here for the past 2 years and dealing with a great bunch of people. All I can say is that I have had a great selling experience with a lot of members. It’s great to think that even one person would be trusted enough to send me something to try on my setup and have that confidence they would receive an item back etc.

But……

What come back will there be if a member were not to help another member?
As I have previously mentioned on another one of these threads. We have a lot of new members join, say their hellos and straight to selling. A lot of these new members (Or those who have joined 10 years ago and don’t have the posts or feedback numbers), either don’t read or ignore the rules about proof of ownership. There was even an instance where a member went ahead and bought off one of these sales threads. All I saw from a Admin/mod was. “That shouldn’t have happened, don’t do it again”.
So, what happens if a member decides not to be nice and refund etc? The buyer will still lose that money etc.

Hopefully this isn’t a scenario we can face. But again to me this then becomes everyone is on a Honours system.
Or will Admins/Mods be requesting contact information when joining this site?

Just my 2 Pence on this.

 

[Watson]

I've gone through a few to many insuranse claims with various couriers and been successful but, I agree with @aaronkatrini, insurance company's do try to worm their way out of compesating. The problem is a lot of people do not follow the correct prodeedures of the policy and that's where the claim becomes invailid. For example, you are required to use double walled boxes and if you send in a single walled box, your claim will be dismissed.

 

[YouKnowWho]

When the sale goes wrong and the item has arrived damaged, what will most buyers expect the seller to do. let put it this way your not going to sit there and go "oh its arrived broken ah its only a grand".

@Timtheloon, I absolutely get what you're saying and where you're coming from. And for some reason, even though I'm mostly a buyer by a decent margin, I think of things from the seller's perspective. Some guy selling me stuff is not the manufacturer and not a retailer. He's just offering a very old electronics item he happens to have and I happen to maybe want to buy from him. Is it fair that I hold him responsible for that items complete total integrity? I'm buying old stuff, and old stuff does old things sometimes. Obvious things within the seller's control, OK. But personally, I don't think the seller should be going to sleep for a few weeks after sending me a 40 year old item wondering if I will come with some surprise or DOA claim, or change my mind and claim that it doesn't work for me and want a return. And we already covered the fact that buyers can lack integrity as well. Or just skill or knowledge handling hardware. I've met extermely fussy and picky people. I can be fussy and picky on a good day. I've handled hardware where I did something stupid...just recently I pluged the power into a Panasonic JU-257 floppy the wrong way and had myself a nice Electrical-BBQ. Didn't know a floppy drive can make that much smoke.

How can you prove what happened when it left your hands? Why should you be liable for my lack of knowledge? That's why personally, my M.O. simply is - I set no expectations, and then I have no disappointments. Everything retro/vintage I buy in my mind is as-is.

It all comes back to expectations. I don't think it's right for buyers to have a "retailer-like 30 day return guarantee, 60 day DOA, 1 year warranty" expectations when we buy old stuff. That's why to me the rules of the retro hobby game are simple:

The seller has the item and has 100% the right to set the terms of the sale.
The buyer has the money and has 100% the right to decide if they wish to spend it.

 

[YouKnowWho]

Let's just try and be good people to each other.. just my 2 cents and I say this as a member (and not in any official staff capacity or whatever)

100%! We're all adults here, and I have yet to encounter an issue.

A little story...about Formula 1.

This Hybrid-automated-software-crap-sound-7-passenger-Escallade-SUV-sized-overweight-cars-era that just came to an end sucked, but that's not what this little story will be about. This story will be about on-track incidents. When you are a fan of a driver, anything that happens against your driver will piss you off. You'll be outraged by it. Long time ago, in the amazing V10 era, I started to do a thing...flipping the cars around in my mind to see if I felt the same way about the incident if it was the exact same incident just the other way around. Amazing how much more clearly I saw things. Moral of the story? As @comraider says, think of the other person. If you agreed to terms, hold yourself to those terms. If you can do something nice for someone, do it.

And now, a video of Renault Espace F1 with a V10 doing a run at Goodwood. Go ahead, just try to tell me it doesn't make you happy.

 

[comraider]

It all comes back to expectations. I don't think it's right for buyers to have a "retailer-like 30 day return guarantee, 60 day DOA, 1 year warranty" expectations when we buy old stuff.

Ensuring that the product isn't DOA and is actually a working item is a very low bar and should be the bare minimum. It's wrong to just say "as is, I wash my hands of this transaction" and then the buyer is left high and dry. The item may need maintenance work later on to keep going and that's expected, but if I buy something and it arrives and is defective, that's where the seller and buyer should work something out.

 

[Amiga Forever]

IF crazy rare comes up on sales then I would rather put

"Pick up only" as then you know item wont be damaged as then seller would come pick item up

 

[Timtheloon]

It all comes back to expectations. I don't think it's right for buyers to have a "retailer-like 30 day return guarantee, 60 day DOA, 1 year warranty" expectations when we buy old stuff. That's why to me the rules of the retro hobby game are simple:

This is not what is being ask for we are simply saying the seller is responsible for ensuring it arrives at the destination intended in the condition it was sold

Not damaged, not DOA. If an item was DOA when it arrived you would be on to the seller straight away not up to 60 days later .

Insurance is another method which should protect both parties if the item was damaged during shipping. but I will say if the buyer refuses this then the buyer has taken on the risk.

This is not to offer extended warranties what he is getting across is the seller can not wipe their hand after and say deal with it. The seller needs to get it to the intended recipient as it was described. Now IMHO, if on the other hand the buyer comes out of the woodwork say two or three weeks after delivery then we would be questioning why has it only been brought to the sellers attention until now.

 

[Sardine]

reading this thread I see my point might have missed a member or 2..

I am NOT talking about warranty.

I am NOT talking about "I'm an experienced repairer and will fix at my costs whatever arrives"

I am NOT talking about any after sales tech support.

I am NOT talking about "I don't care what arrives it was rare so that justifies all the damages and broken pieces"

I am NOT talking about "We are all adults and can work it out amongst ourselves amicably"



I AM talking about what is Described in the sales thread E.G. "A1200 Pristine condition working perfectly" arrives EXACTLY as the description states.

NO "Private sale: No warranty, no guarantee, no returns, and no liability whatsoever." is an absolute NO and has no place on Amibay,

If your terms of sale are as such then your should NOT be allowed to list items here PERIOD, there MUST be some expectation that what's bought and paid for arrives. SIMPLE..

 

[davideo]

The only thing I'd like to add is that if you list it as Spare/Repairs then you can expect it NOT to work when it arrives.

The same could also be said for Untested.

 

[Sardine]

The only thing I'd like to add is that if you list it as Spare/Repairs then you can expect it NOT to work when it arrives.

The same could also be said for Untested.

YES,, but in the condition it was sold in.. untested doesn't mean arrives in more than 1 piece or damaged or just not the same as advertised..

 

[DeluxePiantXX]

@Sardine I understand what you mean and it is like a little bit of utopia what you wish for.

This year I bought a lot of expensive items on amibay. I talked with the people and you can compare with the sale threads here in amibay and on other platforms. You will see a lot of people invest time in their sales threads with a lot of photos and fine and detailed descriptions of the items. And you have the feedback score.

Of course i am disappointed when i receive items (as you mentioned in a LEGO™ situation) broken or damaged. But in my humble opinion we as a buyer can think for ourselves and do not need more regulations. And if someone wants to put sentences like "Private Sale" or "No warranty" then it is up to the buyer to ask more questions or if possible pickup the item in person.

 

[miggymad]

It will be interesting to see what the end result (if anything) of all this will be. So until then, I'll just sit this one out and observe.