No warranty. No returns

[miggymad]

I'll just sit waiting patiently for the first draft of any new rule born as a direct result of this thread. Then go from there ...

... but until then I'm off to see if I can break another joystick playing Project X - Light Years

 

[Sardine]

just DOA,, that's all.. some reasonable expectation that what is sold is what arrives.

Not as with all "old" hardware ( even recent-ish voodoo 3 cards have failing bios or caps giving instability ), if it turns on, works as "described" a quick photo of a small session of supercars or lemmings seemed ok that's acceptable as a seller you cant "guarantee" a 100% working system no matter what the descriptions says in their ad.

 

[Sardine]

I'll just sit waiting patiently for the first draft of any new rule born as a direct result of this thread. Then go from there ...

... but until then I'm off to see if I can break another joystick playing Project X - Light Years

no new rules needed, it was just a what do you all think on DOA items and the NO warranty and NO returns on very costly items.

It's nice to see so many supporting or volunteering to accept returns if DOA, make me feel all warn and fuzzy inside ( yes i stole that from the Grinch )

 

[YouKnowWho]

I don’t personally like the idea of selling a £2000 €2000 or $2000 item with the stipulation “it works here. I have taken many photos but if it arrives with issues not stated clearly in the sale thread there will be no warranty no returns no support “

on an item that costs thousands ?? you must be rich or.........an extreme risk taker,

some members ( me included ) single income, average wage ( i think below ) , family of 5 ( 9 if dogs included ), we would have to sit down and have a serious talk ( like buying a car ) to spend thousands on a 40yr old computer that could break and be worthless at any moment, EVEN, get this,,,,, AT THE POINT OF DELIVERY... wow!!

Well, what is this item? Is it important to me? Is it very rare to find? Hard to find? Impossible to find? Do I want it really bad? ...regardless of condition?

Then...
Do I want the item or do I want a retailer/manufacturer/warranty/support relationship with the seller?
Does the seller want to just sell it or does he want a customer support relationship with the buyer?
Is it fair for me to expect the seller to provide warranty and technical support?
Is it fair for the seller to just say "for sale - take it or leave it! I don't want to hear from you after you buy it."

Sidebar: I have a retro item that I bought about 15 years ago for absolutely stupid money even by today's standards. I haven't seen one for sale since, anywhere. I didn't know what was going to arrive after I bought it. FYI: I absolutely made the right choice to buy it.

 

[Sardine]

so a risk taker.... makes or breaks.,,.

I personally cant afford to take the risk with a family and current world costs to basics like food and heat,. ( i had to have a sit down if i could pre-order "The A1200" and thats half a year away ), I got the green light for the new Intellivision sprint,,, drooling over the Vectex mini but that's outa my reach

 

[YouKnowWho]

I don’t personally like the idea of selling a £2000 €2000 or $2000 item with the stipulation “it works here. I have taken many photos but if it arrives with issues not stated clearly in the sale thread there will be no warranty no returns no support “

Sardine, I'm not picking on you at all. Based on your messages here that I've read, I feel like I share many of your views. But regarding the amount noted and considering today's inflation realities, I just want to point out that a Commodore 64 was launched at $595 USD in 1982, which is equivalent to $2000 USD today. Just a little inflationary reality and reflection of value and prices that I feel is entirely relevant to this conversation.

P.S. You don't even want to know at what amount of today's dollars the Amiga 3000 was launched at back in 1990.
Answer on Wikipedia

 

[Sardine]

I totally get it,, I argued than an Xbox Series X or a PS5 was "cheap" compared to like you said a new C64 when released.

PC's and consoles in general are getting less expensive as time passes especially when you look at what you get for lets say a mini Ryzen PC box, almost throw away prices.

and back on topic,

its just the recent increase in retro prices with the caveat no returns, warranty given is a bitter pill to swallow,

 

[YouKnowWho]

so a risk taker.... makes or breaks.,,.

I personally cant afford to take the risk with a family and current world costs to basics like food and heat,. ( i had to have a sit down if i could pre-order "The A1200" and thats half a year away ), I got the green light for the new Intellivision sprint,,, drooling over the Vectex mini but that's outa my reach

Yes, I think everyone's reality is different on their preferences and also risk. I won't get into pricing details of purchases on here as I don't want to heat up MOD's keyboard, but I've seen some items sell here for large amounts, and they were clearly worth it. But I wouldn't have bought them personally, so not worth it to me. However, I don't get to determine value for the world. So yes, each of us has a different budget for this hobby and therefore, different tolerance and value preception. I see some of the PPC stuff for example, and I just know it's not for me. 68060 prices have made 68LC060 perfectly fine for me. Picasso IV recent prices have made me enjoy AGA more. And even OCS.

As for these re-released systems...I just let them pass me by. I save HUGE amounts by doing so. Vectrex Mini? No Vector CRT? AMOLED screen? I don't know...I'm sure it's a nice simulation of the real deal, but if I really loved and wanted a Vectrex, just find a real Vectrex! Same with that software emulating A1200. If you wrap a dog poop in gold leaf, is it now gold?

Why buy fake, when you can still have real? Yeah yeah....convenience...because we retro lovers have grown that soft?
What's next...we'll watch other people play the video games becuase it's too inconvenient to play it ourselves?

 

[YouKnowWho]

its just the recent increase in retro prices with the caveat no returns, warranty given is a bitter pill to swallow,

Yeah...stuff is getting silly out there. I just learned about VecFever and saw a completed auction on Sept 7th for (Self-Censored because it is too obscene to even type in for MOD to edit out.) Stuff is getting crazy.

Maybe we just need to get back to our beloved Amiga 1200 with 4MB of FastRam/FPU add-on and CF Card and...party like Commodore is still in operation. Wait a minute...oh...it's not the real one it's just Ghostbrandmmodore.

 

[YouKnowWho]

just DOA,, that's all.. some reasonable expectation that what is sold is what arrives.

Scenario: I have a non-working Picasso IV card that I'm sad about. It looks exactly like the one you're selling. Same Rev. Same everything. Just died in a power event. You have one for sale. DECLARE INTEREST! I buy it. Ooops! You've sent me a DOA card dude. It doesn't work. I want to return it.

Now what?

 

[miggymad]

@YouKnowWho

That's fraud and an instant ban if found out.

 

[Boing-ball]

Scenario: I have a non-working Picasso IV card that I'm sad about. It looks exactly like the one you're selling. Same Rev. Same everything. Just died in a power event. You have one for sale. DECLARE INTEREST! I buy it. Ooops! You've sent me a DOA card dude. It doesn't work. I want to return it.

Now what?

That’s a good point….
We are having to trust everyone on here on a honours system.
But as @miggymad has Pointed out. That would be fraud. But who is to say someone may not try it on.

 

[YouKnowWho]

Of course it is dishonest and fraud, but...how can you prove it? What would I do? Confess?

As you've noted, things are expensive. And you've just sent me a DOA Picasso IV card dude. I've just made a claim. Paypal will decide that it was so and ask for return tracking.

...my point is simply, that there is a lot of grey and even "yellowed" area in this retro hobby. That's why I told you my code for this hobby. It has served me well and it is simple. Seems that others (majority?) subscribe to it as well. Is it perfect? But it seems to be working just fine...for the majority...so far.

I have to admit, I mostly operate in the low three-digit amounts, so there is that flaw in my retro logic and methods.

 

[miggymad]

Of course it is dishonest and fraud, but...how can you prove it? What would I do? Confess?

A UV pen ... works wonders you know

 

[YouKnowWho]

A UV pen ... works wonders you know

Oops...have a black light! <snip>

EDIT: ...that was just for some laughs. Takes tension out of things. Seriously...you don't black light check the used items you guys buy?

Also, fraud, theft, dishonesty...that stuff works once or twice, but it never works out long term. In fact, it always comes back after you even harder. Karma or whatever it is. So I'm not arguing for it. Just pointing out that these fringe things happen around vast majority of honest people. I feel like this is a very honest place and we all need to contribute to that. Then these types of threads just become an outlet about other less honest places.

 

[darefail]

For the DOA issue I think we all agree.
For the @Boing-ball issue that has become somewhat personal, I think he is clear. He does not commit to any help after the sale, obviously because he doesn’t know who will buy it, and I don’t see anything wrong with that. Photos exist and anyone can judge what they are buying. Sure, all these things slow the sale down, but I wish all sellers were this honest.
@YouKnowWho a song says you win some, lose some, it's all the same to me.. and I say dare fail

 

[sheepz]

I sold a lovely working C64 on eBay and posted it to the other side of the country. It arrived with them apparently DOA and they asked for a refund. eBay blocked the payment and refunded the buyer. So I was out the sale price and postage to the buyer. Back and forth with the buyer and had to send them another label to return it to me. After paying out about £17 for the return, the buyer informed me it works fine now as the didn't notice the power switch on the back of the machine! So I lost out on £17!

Now on eBay I sell as "spares or repairs" as I don't want to lose out again. For big sales (e.g My A4000) I would rather sell here or as collection only, but not always possible when you live in the North East of Scotland!

That's my side of it

Regards
Barry

 

[davideo]

@sheepz We thought adding additional thread prefixes would help with the spare/repairs/untested stuff that was listed on here.

Unfortunately not everybody uses them but if we spot something with the wrong prefix we will normally change it.

 

[miggymad]

@davideo

Perhaps contemplate adding Tested/Working to the list of categories ...?

 

[darefail]

@miggymad

Whatever prefixes are created, they’ll only matter if the seller actually uses them. And how can you enforce that, when buyers on the other side don’t even read the description?
I’m starting to believe from various PMs I get, that buyers look at the title and the photo. Nothing else.

Do you remember whose thread led to the new prefixes that davideo posted? Do you think they served the purpose of that thread?