PC-Task vs. Bridgeboard

[YouKnowWho]

Makes sense @Xanxi. Real hardware is always going to be better. Why else would we have real Amiga vs. Emu? Obviously the reason is, real is real and always will be. Same goes for PC. If the hardware is there, it will be better than Emu. I admire these BBs very much, and you guys have some tweaked out BridgeBoards here. I guess I'm having a moment when I'm torn between getting one and not getting one - trying to justify my choice once again. Interesting that no one has done anything with PC-Task to emulate something better than just beeps if you have a 16bit audio card in the Amiga for example. Guess it means a driver on the PC side of some sort. Anyhow, your advice about productivity/basic stuff being fine on PC-Task is much appreciated. Really, PC-Task was an emergency thing back in the day, and a bit of a novelty. You put up with the slowness becuase it was used only when you needed a PC and didn't have one around. Let's face it, most of us Amiga fans didn't have a PC at home. Really appreciate your tests. Next time you're overclocking your 68060, maybe pop into PC-Task real quick and see what you get.

@Flash951 - Yes, I understand some funny business is going on there with the PC-Task test on your faster 100Mhz beast machine. It's not going to be 486, but it's funny that it says that it is one...fast one too. And your A2386SX upgraded BB result...well, what is there to say? It's probably as good as is possible in an Amiga unless one were to jump to an SBC. And it's a Commodore board, so all that software and function. The switching box you have on the A2386SX VGA card is something from Commodore a KVM switch to the VGA card? Or just a manual VGA signal switch?

 

[Xanxi]

I've got a cooling fan on the 486 CPU, no problem with heat. Also fan on the 060 and an upgraded silent fan on psu.

Here is my A2386SX (486) Sysinfo:

Ok you have a fan, but where goes the heat? An expanded A4000 has no efficient airflow.
My A4000D has two probes for temp, one from the daughterboard (special model by Torsti76) which gives temp around the center of the computer and one inside the ZZ9000.
Temps are raising fast when i monitor them with Sensei. As soon as my ZZ9000 reaches 75°C i feel it is time to turn the computer off. It takes several hours in winter but only 1 to 1,5 hour in summer. The A2386 is also responsible for the temperature raising in the board area. A fan on top of the 486SLC won't change the temperature of the computer.

 

[Xanxi]

PCTask can do music and sound if you have a GG2 board and a non DMA sound card like Adlib in an ISA slot.

 

[YouKnowWho]

PCTask can do music and sound if you have a GG2 board and a non DMA sound card like Adlib in an ISA slot.

Well, that's a PC-Task selling feature right there! Really?

You know...I don't understand why that GG2+ board hasn't been replicated yet. It's low tech overall, and I think many of us would buy it. It's a no-brainer. Someone with skill should take it on. I think they would be very impressed by the uptake on it. Most of us would probably take a couple, for starters.

Probably network and hard drive boards too, right? What about video boards on PC-Taks? Now I'm pushing reality!

 

[Xanxi]

The man who was selling them at the time is still doing them but i have one overdue for 3 years.

 

[YouKnowWho]

The man who was selling them at the time is still doing them but i have one overdue for 3 years.

What do you mean? Someone did the re-GoldenGate 2+? Who? Where? Maybe he needs some help? There are a lot of skilled people out here who can perhaps help him. He has the knowledge, maybe needs skilled help. Can you put this mistery man in touch with some of the incredible skilled hobbyists on here who can help him, make some scratch for their Amiga hobby and provide some hardware for us addicted hopeless souls.

 

[Flash951]

Ok you have a fan, but where goes the heat? An expanded A4000 has no efficient airflow.
My A4000D has two probes for temp, one from the daughterboard (special model by Torsti76) which gives temp around the center of the computer and one inside the ZZ9000.
Temps are raising fast when i monitor them with Sensei. As soon as my ZZ9000 reaches 75°C i feel it is time to turn the computer off. It takes several hours in winter but only 1 to 1,5 hour in summer. The A2386 is also responsible for the temperature raising in the board area. A fan on top of the 486SLC won't change the temperature of the computer.

Answer to your question:,the hot air is exhausted out in the rear of the PSU by the fan (upgraded). Cold air is sucked in around the slots in the rear and the air stream goes around the daughter board, over the accelerator and through the psu housing. This is how the A4000 is designed. Improved by using a narrow cdrom, strip ribbon cables and make them round, use rear slot covers with ventilation holes, replace original fan.

 

[Flash951]

Well, that's a PC-Task selling feature right there! Really?

You know...I don't understand why that GG2+ board hasn't been replicated yet. It's low tech overall, and I think many of us would buy it. It's a no-brainer. Someone with skill should take it on. I think they would be very impressed by the uptake on it. Most of us would probably take a couple, for starters.

Probably network and hard drive boards too, right? What about video boards on PC-Taks? Now I'm pushing reality!

I've never seen a video of PCTask using a board, I dont understand how that's even technically possible.

GG boards, there is 386 and 486 emulator Bridgeboard that's great, nothing to do with PCTask. They can use ISA cards.

And there is a Golden Gate+ by another company. which are not related and makes you use PC ISA cards on the Amiga side.

BTW: Bridgeboards, there is sw on Aminet to use a cheap pc network card on the Amiga side (Etherbridge).

 

[Xanxi]

Answer to your question:,the hot air is exhausted out in the rear of the PSU by the fan (upgraded). Cold air is sucked in around the slots in the rear and the air stream goes around the daughter board, over the accelerator and through the psu housing. This is how the A4000 is designed. Improved by using a narrow cdrom, strip ribbon cables and make them round, use rear slot covers with ventilation holes, replace original fan.

Yes i know that but obviously that's not enough. Those who designed that case didn't though all ISA and Zorro slots would be occupied, and that there would be big accelerators producing heat. And at least i don't have an old hard drive anymore but a SSD (which still produce a lot of heat - they stop working when temp exceeds 60°C by the way, they just disappear from the system and the computer hangs).
Are you monitoring the temperature in your case? You might be surprised.

 

[Xanxi]

I've never seen a video of PCTask using a board, I dont understand how that's even technically possible.

GG boards, there is 386 and 486 emulator Bridgeboard that's great, nothing to do with PCTask. They can use ISA cards.

And there is a Golden Gate+ by another company. which are not related and makes you use PC ISA cards on the Amiga side.

BTW: Bridgeboards, there is sw on Aminet to use a cheap pc network card on the Amiga side (Etherbridge).

There are videos on Youtube from a fellow with an A2000, a Vampire V2 and the GG2 + Adlib. Although not clearly documented in the manual, PCTask does use the GG2 if present.

 

[Xanxi]

What do you mean? Someone did the re-GoldenGate 2+? Who? Where? Maybe he needs some help? There are a lot of skilled people out here who can perhaps help him. He has the knowledge, maybe needs skilled help. Can you put this mistery man in touch with some of the incredible skilled hobbyists on here who can help him, make some scratch for their Amiga hobby and provide some hardware for us addicted hopeless souls.

That's not a re-card.
That's real GG2, same from 20 years ago, made by Ethan Dicks who own them and is selling them all along.
It seems he is usually present in some US computing conventions.
I have been in touch for 3 years for one card, but he couldn't deliver it to me so far.

 

[Flash951]

Yes i know that but obviously that's not enough. Those who designed that case didn't though all ISA and Zorro slots would be occupied, and that there would be big accelerators producing heat. And at least i don't have an old hard drive anymore but a SSD (which still produce a lot of heat - they stop working when temp exceeds 60°C by the way, they just disappear from the system and the computer hangs).
Are you monitoring the temperature in your case? You might be surprised.

My A4000 is 100% reliable, no heat problem. I've use a CF card for harddrive, also for BB. I've got all slots occupied, CV64, BB, VGA, I/O IDE, also a cdrom that blocks the airstream into the psu a bit.

I've also replaced the internals of the PSU with modern high quality 300w. If I should need more cooling I'll use a more powerful fan in the PSU, maybe get a shorter cdrom.

 

[Xanxi]

Yes, a modern PSU could improve the airflow through the PSU.

My A4000 also has extra stuff inside (internal powered USB hub, internal USB SoundBlaster card and so forth).

Also, we can point out that average temp in Oslo near your place are, according to weather datas on the internet

January	-4.3 (24.26)
February	-4.0 (24.8)
March	-0.2 (31.64)
April	4.5 (40.1)
May	10.8 (51.44)
June	15.2 (59.36)
July	16.4 (61.52)
August	15.2 (59.36)
September	10.8 (51.44)
October	6.3 (43.34)
November	0.7 (33.26)
December	-3.1 (26.42)

whereas, average temp in Paris, France, are

2,7	2,8	5,3	7,3	10,9	13,8	15,8	15,7	12,7	9,6	5,8	3,4	8,9
4,9	5,6	8,8	11,5	15,2	18,3	20,5	20,3	16,9	13	8,3	5,5	12,4
7,2	8,3	12,2	15,6	19,6	22,7	25,2	25	21,1	16,3	10,8	7,5	16
−14,6 23/1940	−14,7 02/1956	−9,1 03/1890	−3,5 13/1879	−0,1 07/1874	3,1 10/1881	6 03/1907	6,3 29/1881	1,8 26/1889	−3,8 29/1877	−14 28/1890	−23,9 10/1879	−23,9 1879
16,1 05/1999	21,4 28/1960	26 31/2021	30,2 18/1949	34,8 29/1944	37,6 26/1947	42,6 25/2019	39,5 11/2003	36,2 07/1895	28,9 01/2011	21,6 07/2015	17,1 16/1989	42,6 2019

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That July 1st 2025, Paris had 41°C, not time for my A4000.

 

[Flash951]

All my retro stuff is in a cool basement. I've replaced the internal of the psu with a very small board from a quite expensive new psu, and desoldered all unused cables. I use a 68060 rev 6 , which makes less heat than the original 68040 I think. For BB sound, I use a lpt adlib in the i/o ide card lpt port, externally, for floppy I use an external amiga fdd to not block airflow with long ribbon cables inside the cabinet.

 

[cv643d]

BTW: A2386SX got a port for a small box that automatically switch monitor between VGA card or Amiga, if that was your issue with BB.

Anyone have that auto switch or instructions on how to build one?

Also the GG+ card that just enable ISA slots for a NIC (and that obscure MP3 ISA card) has been cloned, I think it was made by some Swede, I have been trying to track one down but have failed.

 

[Xanxi]

Very unlikely that anyone could make clones of the GoldenGate 2+ card.

The card design belongs to Ethan Dicks.
A couple of years ago he told me, when i was asking about why Vortex boards shared the GoldenGate name:

"It was specifically to avoid that confusion that I renamed the board.
The original Golden Gate Bridgecard was created by David Salmon in the
early 90s. He sold me the designs and rights to manufacture.
Completely independently, Vortex made and named their
IBM-clone-bridgecard. When I started making my boards, I renamed them
to the GG2 Bus+, keeping "GG2" as a link back to David's product and
goodwill. I didn't alter his design, BTW, just updated the silkscreen
layer to replace his name with mine."

Mr Dicks is still selling them at retrocomputing conventions in the USA, even though he couldn't send one to me since 2022. But regarding Amiga stuff, i know i just have to wait, eventually everything comes to me at the right time.

About the A2386 switcher, i would have liked a lot to have one when i was still running VGA. Now, with a ZZ9000 HDMI output, i just use the internal switcher of my monitor to swap VGA and HDMI with one or two buttons.
But if you want it, search BBSwitch on Aminet. If you build them, keep me posted for one ;-)

 

[cv643d]

I have seen mentions of clones of it on Discord, lets just keep it at that

I have seen that file but did not realise there was a schematic in it. Since I have multiple big boxes and both VGA/HDMI setups I want one. Not sure my skills can draw it up in KiCad or what it is called lol, would look like a 3 year olds project

Btw: "...eventually everything comes to me at the right time."

Is it possible to learn this power?

 

[YouKnowWho]

@Xanxi, this effort for the GG2s needs a boost! As in, how about you ping him and tell him you need 10, not just 1. You know there will be quick takers. Yours free for your effort. Us 9 cover the cost of your board for the effort. He will be more inclined to respond to a demand for volume vs. one unit to many. Become his amateur distributor.

 

[cv643d]

@YouKnowWho I was thinking the same thing... not that I know what to do with it TBH... well another reason to get another big box (lol).

Btw, looked the schematics for the monitor switcher, does not actually look that difficult to build but I am up and above my ears with projects right now.

 

[Flash951]

@YouKnowWho I was thinking the same thing... not that I know what to do with it TBH... well another reason to get another big box (lol).

Btw, looked the schematics for the monitor switcher, does not actually look that difficult to build but I am up and above my ears with projects right now.

Ive ordered the IC, building a switch box as soon the chip arrives.