These are dangerous feelings to have m8. Perhaps you need to get out more.
:mrgreen:Kin
Some considers the AmigaOne X1000?
- Thread starter ThunderStorm81
- Start date
- Replies 58
- Views 2087
These are dangerous feelings to have m8. Perhaps you need to get out more.
:mrgreen:Kin
ThunderStorm81
Member
That's the right attitude for revolution:
Freedom? To expensive! Better let Microsoft & Co. enslave and rule us, it's cheaper...
*justkidding*
Freedom? To expensive! Better let Microsoft & Co. enslave and rule us, it's cheaper...
*justkidding*
Justin
Active member
That's the right attitude for revolution:
Freedom? To expensive! Better let Microsoft & Co. enslave and rule us, it's cheaper...
*justkidding*
/JuvUK stands up alone as a fan of Microsoft stuff
That's the right attitude for revolution:
Freedom? To expensive! Better let Microsoft & Co. enslave and rule us, it's cheaper...
*justkidding*
/JuvUK stands up alone as a fan of Microsoft stuff
Anarchy rules! :mrgreen:
Kin
commodorejohn
Shameless recidivist
Huh, no. Linux is free; runs on anything, costs nothing, controlled by nobody. This, for whatever its other merits, is not free, in any sense. It'd be cool to see a third player arise in the personal-computing market, but that's not going to happen under a philosophy of "any amount is worth paying to not have a Wintel machine."That's the right attitude for revolution:
Freedom? To expensive! Better let Microsoft & Co. enslave and rule us, it's cheaper...
I think Apple Computer have already cornered the market for that particular philosophy. A newcomer will have to find a different angle.
Sometimes I catch myself thinking "would be better never meet her"
Agree.
The price is crazy, mad, insane. I doubt it will give us more compatibility than WinUAE which is for free
(talking only about games)ThunderStorm81
Member
Linux endows you hardware? Good to know...
And yes, the price is too high, I agree. But let's wait what the real price is when the selling starts.:|
And yes, the price is too high, I agree. But let's wait what the real price is when the selling starts.:|
commodorejohn
Shameless recidivist
Doesn't need to; it works on basically anything greater than an original PCLinux endows you hardware? Good to know...
ThunderStorm81
Member
So you got your hardware for free? Me not, i had to buy it... ;-)
ChrisUnionNJ
We Will Never Forget..
Computers
Computers
Every computer has it's place in the user's evolution mine starts here..
Vic-20,C64,Apple 2c,A1000,Building my XT,my first fast PC a 386 33 mhz,
Built my P100 mhz ground up,Mac 475 performa,then a iMac on of the first one's job's got me on that keynote also I still had that performa till my basement flooded,upgraded the P100 to a 200mhz..
Then I worked for a guy in computer repair he did alot of referb and amiga
repair got my 1200 there and a SX64..
So to me I had fun on all these computers just when it became my affordable
I have always been one step behind..
But being here and reading what you guys post has really got me going not
as afraid of SMD as I once was willing to give it a go I mainly do thru the
board stuff hell I even what to try building a GBA1000 if I can get a board
already have 2 A500 donors...
So I have to say thanks to you guys and Amibay..
Chris
Computers
Every computer has it's place in the user's evolution mine starts here..
Vic-20,C64,Apple 2c,A1000,Building my XT,my first fast PC a 386 33 mhz,
Built my P100 mhz ground up,Mac 475 performa,then a iMac on of the first one's job's got me on that keynote also I still had that performa till my basement flooded,upgraded the P100 to a 200mhz..
Then I worked for a guy in computer repair he did alot of referb and amiga
repair got my 1200 there and a SX64..
So to me I had fun on all these computers just when it became my affordable
I have always been one step behind..
But being here and reading what you guys post has really got me going not
as afraid of SMD as I once was willing to give it a go I mainly do thru the
board stuff hell I even what to try building a GBA1000 if I can get a board
already have 2 A500 donors...
So I have to say thanks to you guys and Amibay..
Chris
jackson312
New member
I am sure they are padding the final price to make a profit, but the reality is that in the consumer electronics industry it is all about volume. Buying 1,000,000 of a part vs. only buying 100,000 makes a big difference in the price of the final product.
I've seen the price of a single chip go from $60 to $15 when the quantity goes up. Anything less than a million is considered to be lower volume.
The volume (or lack of) trickles down to the price of everything, the cost per PCB board, the cost of all the components, the cost to assemble and test. Any contract manufacturer will charge you less per board if you are able to keep your assembly line going for a single product instead of only making a small quantity. After that they have to re-tool and make something else.
If A-EON knew there was a market and had the capital and decided to build say 2 million machines, then their selling price would probably be 1/2 to 1/3 of what it is now.
Of course they know the market is small and they probably don't have the cash or the ability to borrow it to build that many machines.
It would also be bad business wise since they would probably have warehouses full of them.
On the subject of porting to Intel, they could achieve lower costs by leveraging more commodity volume parts if they were to switch to the Intel architecture. Even though the machine would probably be able to run Windows, it would be tailored to run AmigaOS.
Even though Apple switched to Intel, they still offer the "complete experience" as Andy put it since they customize their hardware so every device is well supported by OSX.
Windows has always had that problem of the occasional badly behaved card, or motherboard. It works most of the time, but not perfectly. MS does as good as they can given the wide diversity of vendors that make stuff for their platform. Some vendors are not as committed to quality as others. Their hardware is borderline, or they have crappy drivers.
That is why Apple does not support third party Intel hardware. They know they cannot offer that experience if OSX were put "out in the wild" and had to support every device or vendor that decided to support OSX. You would see a lot more problems on the Mac platform than you do now. They know they will never unseat MS, they are not even trying, they are just trying to sell to a niche crowd that wants a Maglight instead of a regular flashlight. Luckly for them there are enough people who are willing to pay a premium for that.
One reason that Apple switched to Intel is that they could use those same commodity parts and reduce their expenses while still maintain quality. The other reason is that the PowerPC was always going to be behind the X86/X86_64 in performance. IBM could not keep up and Apple was not selling enough chips to warrant IBM to invest more into fabrication to get the speed up. Apple did not want to lag behind in performance anymore.
Like it or not the PC industry has consolidated and is a more "mature" industry. Everything is about commodity. There are a few niches left at the high-end, but that's about it.
I'd love for the PC industry to still be in its youth and there were a lot of interesting platforms around that were each interesting, but alas its time has past. We do see that in the mobile area now where there are many vendors of Smart Phones and tablets. There are a lot of custom chips and none of them run a standard OS. There is Qndroid QNX, IOS (which is really a scaled down version of OSX, WebOS,.....)
Well that's my 2 cents....
Maybe the XMOS chip can become the differentiator (pun intended)? If some clever developer(s) can come up with a killer app that takes advantage of that chip and uses the transputer model to do something very fast or better than the GPU can do and integrate that with an app, that could become a killer app for the X1000.
This is the first machine I know of that is offering one of these on a general purpose computer with a programming interface from the GPU to the XMOS. A board with more XMOSes would be a very interesting application. Use the built in XMOS to program the other XMOSes and then let it rip. I am just thinking out loud. :nuts:
I've seen the price of a single chip go from $60 to $15 when the quantity goes up. Anything less than a million is considered to be lower volume.
The volume (or lack of) trickles down to the price of everything, the cost per PCB board, the cost of all the components, the cost to assemble and test. Any contract manufacturer will charge you less per board if you are able to keep your assembly line going for a single product instead of only making a small quantity. After that they have to re-tool and make something else.
If A-EON knew there was a market and had the capital and decided to build say 2 million machines, then their selling price would probably be 1/2 to 1/3 of what it is now.
Of course they know the market is small and they probably don't have the cash or the ability to borrow it to build that many machines.
It would also be bad business wise since they would probably have warehouses full of them.
On the subject of porting to Intel, they could achieve lower costs by leveraging more commodity volume parts if they were to switch to the Intel architecture. Even though the machine would probably be able to run Windows, it would be tailored to run AmigaOS.
Even though Apple switched to Intel, they still offer the "complete experience" as Andy put it since they customize their hardware so every device is well supported by OSX.
Windows has always had that problem of the occasional badly behaved card, or motherboard. It works most of the time, but not perfectly. MS does as good as they can given the wide diversity of vendors that make stuff for their platform. Some vendors are not as committed to quality as others. Their hardware is borderline, or they have crappy drivers.
That is why Apple does not support third party Intel hardware. They know they cannot offer that experience if OSX were put "out in the wild" and had to support every device or vendor that decided to support OSX. You would see a lot more problems on the Mac platform than you do now. They know they will never unseat MS, they are not even trying, they are just trying to sell to a niche crowd that wants a Maglight instead of a regular flashlight. Luckly for them there are enough people who are willing to pay a premium for that.
One reason that Apple switched to Intel is that they could use those same commodity parts and reduce their expenses while still maintain quality. The other reason is that the PowerPC was always going to be behind the X86/X86_64 in performance. IBM could not keep up and Apple was not selling enough chips to warrant IBM to invest more into fabrication to get the speed up. Apple did not want to lag behind in performance anymore.
Like it or not the PC industry has consolidated and is a more "mature" industry. Everything is about commodity. There are a few niches left at the high-end, but that's about it.
I'd love for the PC industry to still be in its youth and there were a lot of interesting platforms around that were each interesting, but alas its time has past. We do see that in the mobile area now where there are many vendors of Smart Phones and tablets. There are a lot of custom chips and none of them run a standard OS. There is Qndroid QNX, IOS (which is really a scaled down version of OSX, WebOS,.....)
Well that's my 2 cents....
Maybe the XMOS chip can become the differentiator (pun intended)? If some clever developer(s) can come up with a killer app that takes advantage of that chip and uses the transputer model to do something very fast or better than the GPU can do and integrate that with an app, that could become a killer app for the X1000.
This is the first machine I know of that is offering one of these on a general purpose computer with a programming interface from the GPU to the XMOS. A board with more XMOSes would be a very interesting application. Use the built in XMOS to program the other XMOSes and then let it rip. I am just thinking out loud. :nuts:
Slayer
New member
I'm getting a little weary of these same threads popping up on all the so called Amiga forums... But I'll repeat myself again... I'll be buying 2 of these units, the 2nd inline with the first cpu upgrade...
If you want to enjoy your older Amiga systems and use linux or mac or xp or aros or morphos or a combination of both then COOL...
But there is no way in hell you'll feel anything with these setups like you will running AmigaOS4.x on an X1000... that's just the way it is, I'm not going explain it to you because chances are you won't be able to relate to it...
Someone mentioned in another post the reason they were buying the X1000 was there was real emotion gone into it... he didn't think so much that the SAM had that feeling but he was certain the X1000 had... isn't that an interesting statement?
Now there's no touching or getting through to alot of you but I can honestly say like I've always done since 1986 is I'll do what I can support the real AmigaOS movement and that's all I can do... I don't hope for anything else but I know that I feel pretty cool running all my Amigas through the last 25 years and for me and a few others this is not over... Not at all...
Stop getting caught up in damn logic and go with what you'd like to do... hell, anyone can go down town and pay 3000 for a top of the line ibm etc... WTFFT?
work that abbrev out
If you want to enjoy your older Amiga systems and use linux or mac or xp or aros or morphos or a combination of both then COOL...
But there is no way in hell you'll feel anything with these setups like you will running AmigaOS4.x on an X1000... that's just the way it is, I'm not going explain it to you because chances are you won't be able to relate to it...
Someone mentioned in another post the reason they were buying the X1000 was there was real emotion gone into it... he didn't think so much that the SAM had that feeling but he was certain the X1000 had... isn't that an interesting statement?
Now there's no touching or getting through to alot of you but I can honestly say like I've always done since 1986 is I'll do what I can support the real AmigaOS movement and that's all I can do... I don't hope for anything else but I know that I feel pretty cool running all my Amigas through the last 25 years and for me and a few others this is not over... Not at all...
Stop getting caught up in damn logic and go with what you'd like to do... hell, anyone can go down town and pay 3000 for a top of the line ibm etc... WTFFT?
work that abbrev out
ii
ii
i would go for aros as i already use it running native on a pc no windows needed have used the IMica that would b my number 2 as it`s not ready yet but it is good you can get it now or there is new Commodore Phoenix coming out @ http://www.commodoreusa.net/Commodore_Phoenix_computer.html
ii
i would go for aros as i already use it running native on a pc no windows needed have used the IMica that would b my number 2 as it`s not ready yet but it is good you can get it now or there is new Commodore Phoenix coming out @ http://www.commodoreusa.net/Commodore_Phoenix_computer.html
niteman1969
New member
I really do think Hyperion etc are missing a trick.
They started developing OS4 for the mac mini and stopped.
I know its a bit of a hardware dead end, but as OSX 10.6 and the new OSX Lion
are not going to be developed for the older PPc mac mini's there are going to be
a lot of the G4 1.42ghz machines on the market pretty damn soon at not a lot of
money.
This would honestly be the best short term fix for getting all the old amigans to
try os4 i personally wouldn't mind spending £200-300 on a mac mini which has
radeon graphics up to 2gb of memory, built in wireless and bluetooth and a small
almost silent footprint and another £150-200 for os4 because the hardware would
be generally available, fixable in most good repair centres and spare parts easily
got.
Fed up of these small production run high cost machines that ultimately are usually
slower than the mac mini g4 1.42 and 3x the cost, I mean come on G3 ?? Really ??
Also very much like osx does on the intel surely some kind of hardware emulation
layer could be made to support aga /ecs or at least a king of uae implementation
that uses coherence mode so that if you start a classic ecs/aga program it kinda
is indistinguishable to the user that any emulation is running at all.
OS4 would sell in bucketloads if people like us could get it on decent hardware
like this. A G4 1.42ghz amiga ?? Hell Yes !!!!
Even better if somone could actually get the classic amiga os'es on it and
somehow see the g4 as an accellerator card and the inbuilt radeon as rtg.
In fact if in my wildest dreams i suddenly woke up and had enough money to buy
hyperion i would task the company to buy g4 mac minis and develop a new firmware/
uboot chip , new more amiga themed casing and bundle it with os4 under £500.
The new uboot chip / firmware would mean that osx would not run on it but you could
still run ppc linux or os4.
That's my mega rant for the day.
They started developing OS4 for the mac mini and stopped.
I know its a bit of a hardware dead end, but as OSX 10.6 and the new OSX Lion
are not going to be developed for the older PPc mac mini's there are going to be
a lot of the G4 1.42ghz machines on the market pretty damn soon at not a lot of
money.
This would honestly be the best short term fix for getting all the old amigans to
try os4 i personally wouldn't mind spending £200-300 on a mac mini which has
radeon graphics up to 2gb of memory, built in wireless and bluetooth and a small
almost silent footprint and another £150-200 for os4 because the hardware would
be generally available, fixable in most good repair centres and spare parts easily
got.
Fed up of these small production run high cost machines that ultimately are usually
slower than the mac mini g4 1.42 and 3x the cost, I mean come on G3 ?? Really ??
Also very much like osx does on the intel surely some kind of hardware emulation
layer could be made to support aga /ecs or at least a king of uae implementation
that uses coherence mode so that if you start a classic ecs/aga program it kinda
is indistinguishable to the user that any emulation is running at all.
OS4 would sell in bucketloads if people like us could get it on decent hardware
like this. A G4 1.42ghz amiga ?? Hell Yes !!!!
Even better if somone could actually get the classic amiga os'es on it and
somehow see the g4 as an accellerator card and the inbuilt radeon as rtg.
In fact if in my wildest dreams i suddenly woke up and had enough money to buy
hyperion i would task the company to buy g4 mac minis and develop a new firmware/
uboot chip , new more amiga themed casing and bundle it with os4 under £500.
The new uboot chip / firmware would mean that osx would not run on it but you could
still run ppc linux or os4.
That's my mega rant for the day.
Last edited:
Hey Hyperion makes absolutely no logical sense whatsoever. Never mind the Mini Mac, they have a huge user base that would gladly for over a hundred or so US dollars to get OS 4 on their CLASSIC STOCK Amigas, but hey lets ignore 99 % of our potential market and develop for the less then 1% who have a PPC card.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out that they DON"T want to advance the hobby or make a product everyone can use, they just want to sell to the elite few that either have a PPC card or the VERY few who can afford the X1000. Its not like we can go out and buy a PPC card. Those that do come up for auction and such, well going by the current prices, you are better off getting an x1000
Hmm, most PPC's sell at a lot less than an X1000, I got mine for a respectable price, ok not a 66/233 but a 50/200, but hey it's enough.
And I can always send it Stachu100 for upgrade
niteman1969
New member
Well I finally took the plunge and bought an os 4.1 system for not a lot of money
and hopefully should be getting it on wednesday.
I know it's not the most powerful at 667mhz but the price was good , so finally i have a chance to see what all the fuss is about.
and hopefully should be getting it on wednesday.
I know it's not the most powerful at 667mhz but the price was good , so finally i have a chance to see what all the fuss is about.
Last edited:
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
