Who is responsible for the shipping method when buying an item?

[darefail]

Inspired by @damiraga post,
"Withdrawing interest due to seller offering me 5kg parcel shipping (for XX EUR) as the only option, despite much cheaper options being available for something of this size/weight"
i am starting this thread to share our experiences with this seller (ok not only) and generally asking, who is responsible for the shipping method when buying an item?
The thread i am reffering to, is this: https://www.amibay.com/threads/cpu-mc68lc060rc50.2451772/

I have bought once from him and through PMs i told him that i want the cheapest service without tracking number. I buy from Germany for many years so i know the options and the risks. He agreed, he printed the label online as this specific service was online only and everything ended great.
A couple of weeks ago i declared interest to one of his sales threads and he told me that he can't print a label and suggested a more expensive shipping method. It is very unlikely that i'll message him again in the future.

If a seller wants to sell his items with tracking number and insured, he can pay for that.
As long as I pay for the shipping, i am responsible for it and i choose whatever i want.

Your thoughts? Your experiences?

 

[Aeberbach]

You have to agree on the shipping method. If the shipping is too expensive that's a perfectly valid reason for a buyer withdrawing interest. Refusing to pay for a tracked option is also a valid reason for a seller to refuse to sell to you.

I once did someone a favour, shipped a $500 eBay purchase via untracked sea mail to save him money. The #%^&* claimed not to receive it and started an eBay dispute, I lost $500. Never again!

 

[darefail]

@Aeberbach it is important to understand that this is not eBay. On eBay of course you NEVER send anything without tracking number.
Personally i pay here as family and friend and if an item gets lost, it is over. I know it.

 

[miggymad]

If somebody wants an item shipped via a certain method that differs from one that is stated in the advert, then it is the responsibility of the buyer to pay the extra costs.

However, that does not mean a seller can hike that cost by overcharging nearly 3x the officially quoted amount as shown on the postal carrier's website. I personally consider that to be scalping via the back door.

A cardboard box plus some extra bubble-wrap is not that expensive to warrant such excessive shipping costs. An extra couple of euro/GBP/$ is usually the norm to cover that.

 

[darefail]

I agree but i have never seen a specific shipping method in a sales thread.

I don't know if he is scalping and i don't think so because if a buyer pays for a 5Kg service and receives a 2Kg one, he can sees that written on the parcel.
But when you send a 20 grams item through a 5Kg service, even the cardboard boxes will be laughing.

 

[miggymad]

Just so people are aware (including you dear reader), the rules regarding this are as follows:

Accurate and detailed listing
Your listings should be clear and honest and avoid ambiguity wherever possible. Providing proper descriptions and photographs will help your sales. You must provide as much information as you can, also stating terms and conditions of sale.

Recommended conditions are:

• What payment methods you accept
• Where in the world you will ship to
• Shipping charges

Recommendations are just that and nothing more. So do your due diligence by all means and if something does not seem right, walk away. If you feel it necessary then you can also report it to a member of staff.

 

[fpmpaolo]

I say it's a matter of agreement between the two.
Here or elsewhere I use tracked shipments, both in Italy and abroad.
IMHO the buyer should cover them, because it's the buyer's responsability to decide which service to use.
I may ask for a discount on the whole price, the seller may accept.
I asked to buy something from E.G. Germany but shipment was too expensive, I gave up.
Personally HERE I prefer to pay via PayPal for friends, and I prefer to pay shipment by miself or ask for a little discount [like I did with @darefail ]

 

[Watson]

The rules state you must add shipping and I doubt very much there will ever be a rule that states who is or should take responsibility for shipping methods. I personally use the cheapest trackable method with the local Postal Service accordingly to value and weight. I have no issues using a specific method or courier if the buyer made such a request , and is of course willing to pay any extra cost but , I would never agree to downgrade from the basic trackable service with compensation.

Some sellers take on the responsibility for shipping cost by offering free shipping, but again, if the buyer has preference to a specific service then they should offer to pay under those circumstances or split the cost.

 

[Half-Saint]

I always keep the buyer's best interest in mind and try to find the cheapest shipping option with tracking. However, if someone explicitly demands a low value item to be shipped without tracking, I don't object. If somebody explicitly demanded shipping by EMS instead of cheaper GLS/DPD AND paid for it, who am I to object?

 

[bdb]

I believe that the one who "arranges" the shipping with the carrier is responsible if the item is damaged or lost - at least the carrier sees it this way.

In my sales, I usually show a screenshot of the various option by carrier (I use Pirate Ship and Shippo discount sites for these options) and let the buyer see which is the least expensive.

When I purchase an item, I usually offer to send a pre-paid label (when able due to shipping internationally) that the user can use instead of an inflated "back door scalping" one. Yes, the seller still has to supply the package size and weight to me.

*If this is unclear due to my use of Americanized English, I can explain further.

 

[damiraga]

Thanks @darefail for starting the thread.
Living outside EU (or major retro markets in general) I am used to high shipping costs and I also always look for the cheapest option, with most sellers usually being willing to accomodate me as long as I accept the risk. So far, I have received all my packages and nothing was ever lost or stolen. Same goes for my ocassional sales.

Here, I was not happy with the seller not willing to provide any cheaper shipping options (even though they were clearly available from the same carrier), especially since he is only accepting PayPal F&F meaning that the risk is fully on my end. I also did not appreciate his comment in DM to check his other sales threads considering that I would be paying for a 5kg package anyway. Even though I probably could have shipped this to a friend in Germany for a fraction of the cost, I felt being pressured into something I was not comfortable with, so I decided to back away from this. While seller probably has a right to choose shipping options that suit him the best, I believe any such restrictions should be disclosed upfront.

Finally, in my opinion, this whole behavior of bending rules and recommendations that we are witnessing lately goes against the ethics Amibay was founded on. Unfortunately, with a popularity of retro computing this was somewhat expected and with such sellers selling highly sought items, I guess there is not much that can be done about it.

 

[davideo]

Finally, in my opinion, this whole behavior of bending rules and recommendations that we are witnessing lately goes against the ethics Amibay was founded on. Unfortunately, with a popularity of retro computing this was somewhat expected and with such sellers selling highly sought items, I guess there is not much that can be done about it.

The bending of rules is highly frowned upon and if/when reported will be investigated.

The right thing to do as a buyer is to walk away.

If the seller doesn't sell his/her items they'll soon learn that their actions are not suitable for AmiBay.

 

[dwaco]

I have bought once from him and through PMs i told him that i want the cheapest service without tracking number. I buy from Germany for many years so i know the options and the risks.

No tracking number represents risks not only to you but also to the seller. Seller risks receiving negative feedback from the buyer (when buyer claims not receiving the item) without ability to prove that he sent anything.

 

[Boing-ball]

I sort of get @darefail point of view. But when I sell on here (Or anywhere else), tracking is always the way forward.
If I sell to someone in the U.K. Then I tend to give free tracked postage. Normally this will be something like Yodel (I know) as it’s the cheapest. But I always use parcel2go for my shipping prices.
If sending overseas then it’s normally Royal Mail or Parcelforce. But again I use a parcel/delivery broker like Parcel2go to get the cheapest prices. As others have mentioned you should give options to the buyer. But never non-tracked. Why? Piece of mind for both buyer and seller. Not that I am not trusting anyone on here. But what happens if the item does go missing? You have no legs to stand on and then it will be you the seller who is out of pocket.
I would always insist on a tracked item. Even those who sell on here have given me tracked and no-tracked prices.
Even if a buyer insists on a non-tracked parcel, then do you put the onos on the buyer if it didn’t show? Box open, snakes everywhere comes to mind

 

[damiraga]

In this specific case it was not about tracking, but the type of shipment that I was asked to accept (5kg parcel for 30EUR vs 500g intl. letter tracked for 7EUR).

Also, tracking number is not a proof of shipment. The shipping receipt/label is! I usually take photos of these or even of the shipping box before I hand it over and I immediately send them to the buyer as a proof of shipment. If someone is dishonest, they can find other ways to leave you a negative feedback (i.e. claim it is not working).

If the item is paid via PayPal F&F, and the buyer accepts the risk package may get lost without tracking, then the risk is on them. Seller did get paid and has nothing to lose here (no claims or chargebacks etc.). One of my last year's purchases took over 6 months for a surface mail package from Japan to arrive (usual delivery time is several weeks) and during this period it has never crossed my mind to leave a negative feedback to the seller, as it was me who asked specifically for a surface mail since airmail postage was more than the item was worth and I was willing to take this risk.
Again, we are talking about Amibay here, and not the "other bay" which has different rules and in case of complaints it usually sides with a buyer, meaning sellers have to ensure they are protected.

 

[darefail]

No tracking number represents risks not only to you but also to the seller. Seller risks receiving negative feedback from the buyer (when buyer claims not receiving the item) without ability to prove that he sent anything.

Now you are telling stories from eBay.
When I ask untracked, how can I leave a negative feedback? Saying what? That he did what I told him to do?
Of course I ask for the receipt or any proof of sending the item.

 

[darefail]

In this specific case it was not about tracking, but the type of shipment that I was asked to accept (5kg parcel for 30EUR vs 500g intl. letter tracked for 7EUR).

Also, tracking number is not a proof of shipment. The shipping receipt/label is! I usually take photos of these or even of the shipping box before I hand it over and I immediately send them to the buyer as a proof of shipment. If someone is dishonest, they can find other ways to leave you a negative feedback (i.e. claim it is not working).

If the item is paid via PayPal F&F, and the buyer accepts the risk package may get lost without tracking, then the risk is on them. Seller did get paid and has nothing to lose here (no claims or chargebacks etc.). One of my last year's purchases took over 6 months for a surface mail package from Japan to arrive (usual delivery time is several weeks) and during this period it has never crossed my mind to leave a negative feedback to the seller, as it was me who asked specifically for a surface mail since airmail postage was more than the item was worth and I was willing to take this risk.
Again, we are talking about Amibay here, and not the "other bay" which has different rules and in case of complaints it usually sides with a buyer, meaning sellers have to ensure they are protected.

I believe that your specific case is about adding items from his list to fill up the 5kg. parcel and not scalping.

 

[dwaco]

Now you are telling stories from eBay.
When I ask untracked, how can I leave a negative feedback? Saying what? That he did what I told him to do?
Of course I ask for the receipt or any proof of sending the item.

I didn't refer to any specific experience. I am talking about it conceptually.

If you, as a buyer, when not receiving the item will leave positive feedback (feedback being mandatory), you cannot speak for all buyers. However virtual, the risk of having unhappy buyer claiming not receiving the item is there for a seller. Someone might "ask for the receipt or any proof of sending the item" and then claim the proof is fake or something. And seller cannot go back to post office to re-do the proof. Some sellers might be inclined to return the money or something.

I am not aware of any button on the site 'I requested non-tracked shipping and forfeit any negative feedback right.'

Having a rule to force seller to pay for insurance/tracking when uninsured/untracked postage was requested represents a variable expense for the seller depending on destination that they cannot reasonably account for in initial thread.

It is great if the seller includes EU or other area shipping costs in the thread from the start though as it doesn't raise your hope to get the item you want cheaply.

 

[Xanxi]

Note that Hermes seems to be a cheaper tracked option from Germany with no fuss, as i have used before with a german member as an alternate cheaper method at my request, which ended with no problem at all.

 

[darefail]

@dwaco i am speaking about experiences from Amibay only!
If it doesn't make any difference to you, then we just see things in a different way.

Another recent experience as a seller is that I was asked to send something tiny as a simple untracked letter. We exchanged both feedback almost immediately without having agreed to do that.

When someone asks something without tracking number, it doesn't show up and he asks for his money back or he leaves a negative feedback then I am not allowed to tell you what he is