Retr0bright Support Thread

[Merlin]

I would mask it off, but I have found that the flame retardant used in BBC machines is different to that used by Commodore/Atari/Nintendo etc., and as a result, the ABS isn't as susceptible to yellowing.

The discolouration you are seeing is more likely to be the ABS polymer itself degrading and I can't guarantee 100% success with reversing that type of discolouration.

 

[manic23]

That in interesting Merlin, maybe it's not worth while me Retr0Brighting my BBC then. To be honest it is not really that bad, but I just wanted it as white as I could get it.

many thanks.

 

[sputnik]

I searched to see if this had been discussed, and have not read this entire thread, so sorry if I am repeating, but...

http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2013-01-15-retr0bright-only-temporary.htm

The results of retr0brite after 4 years do not look promising in these examples.

Has anyone else been able to stave off re-yellowing for longer?

 

[Merlin]

Those items weren't lacquered to stop the yellowing from returning. I have always said that the reaction is reversible, otherwise we wouldn't be able to reverse it in the first place. The reaction can go both ways and until you take away one of the reaction conditions, it always will reverse.

Lacquering prevents oxygen from reaching the surface of the plastic, so the reaction stops, just like the 'Triangle of Fire'.

 

[demolition]

http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2013-01-15-retr0bright-only-temporary.htm
The results of retr0brite after 4 years do not look promising in these examples.

I think it looks fine? They are all still looking much better 4 years later as compared to the original. Nothing stops you from redoing the treatment, except if you sprayed it with laquer.

Those items weren't lacquered to stop the yellowing from returning. I have always said that the reaction is reversible, otherwise we wouldn't be able to reverse it in the first place. The reaction can go both ways and until you take away one of the reaction conditions, it always will reverse.

Lacquering prevents oxygen from reaching the surface of the plastic, so the reaction stops, just like the 'Triangle of Fire'.

Are you sure it doesn't return even if you spray it with laquer? Problem is if people spray them and then later finds out it returns anyway, then it is too late to go back..

 

[Merlin]

If ads1500 is around, ask him. I treated and lacquered his A600 some years ago and it would be nice to get an update. I am as certain as I can be about the lacquer, as it's the oxygen in the air that causes the brominated flame retardant to migrate through the plastic. Removing the air via a barrier of lacquer achieves this, as well as preventing any further oxidation of the polymer. To have oxidation occurring, you need oxygen molecules.

(OK, the purists will want to start banging on about Brønsted-Lowry Theory and Lewis Acids and Bases, but I want to keep it simple).

 

[Magno Boots]

In response to sputnik in my for sale thread

Wow these look great, any chance of sharing your secret formula?

I've luckily been on the peroxide trail with the founders since the beginning .. see post #2
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=37808

Nowadays I usually wait for a nice Autumn or Spring day when there is plenty of low sunlight but no heat.

In a bowl, I now use a big pinch of sodium percarbonate mixed with two tablespoons of warmish water, add approx 75ml of Re-Oxide Cream 18%, mix and leave to thicken like hair mousse.

Apply with a non natural bristle brush (it will dissolve the bristles over time), apply generously paying attention to the key tops and sides; leave for say one hour. Pop back to apply again, leave another hour and keep turning item to face the sun. After maybe two to three applications I would repeat, but only using clean water this time. Apply more water and agitate again.

You don't want to over do it, so don't be afraid to wash everything off and leave to dry. White plastic strangely appears to brighten more when dried completely. Repeat if you feel you need it.
For a stubborn key / keys I would suggest you remove them and apply mixture separately.

SP works for me, but so did Vanish Oxy

I've had some great fun since this all came to light

 

[sputnik]

In response to sputnik in my for sale thread

Wow these look great, any chance of sharing your secret formula?

I've luckily been on the peroxide trail with the founders since the beginning .. see post #2
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=37808

Nowadays I usually wait for a nice Autumn or Spring day when there is plenty of low sunlight but no heat.

In a bowl, I now use a big pinch of sodium percarbonate mixed with two tablespoons of warmish water, add approx 75ml of Re-Oxide Cream 18%, mix and leave to thicken like hair mousse.

Apply with a non natural bristle brush (it will dissolve the bristles over time), apply generously paying attention to the key tops and sides; leave for say one hour. Pop back to apply again, leave another hour and keep turning item to face the sun. After maybe two to three applications I would repeat, but only using clean water this time. Apply more water and agitate again.

You don't want to over do it, so don't be afraid to wash everything off and leave to dry. White plastic strangely appears to brighten more when dried completely. Repeat if you feel you need it.
For a stubborn key / keys I would suggest you remove them and apply mixture separately.

SP works for me, but so did Vanish Oxy

I've had some great fun since this all came to light

View attachment 67597View attachment 67595View attachment 67596

Hey I missed this when you posted it, sorry! Thanks so much for sharing your method and explaining it so well I've now begun to follow the whole thread in little chunks (lots of catch-up to do)... it's already given me lots of ideas

 

[Aysel]

Just to let everyone know Tesco currently have a buy two get one free on all hair dye products at the moment... I got some suspicious looks as I rolled 12 bottles of BBlonde for the price of 8 through the self serve tills with my bald head shining away lol... looking forward to a first bash at Retrobrighting this weekend if the sun shows up

 

[Aysel]

So a sunny bank holiday spent doing a couple of A500's a 4000 and three monitors Think I better leave it a while before I start on the C64's as it was a little more time consuming than I had anticipated lol

A massive thanks to Merlin and everyone else who made this possible! I thought best place to catch sun would be on top of the gaming room



Before an after (A500 top and keys to the right not done, A4k keyboard and keys to left had one treatment 3 hrs) and all were pretty much yellowed to the degree of the A500 case in this pic



and after



Just got a few more A500s I have collected over the last 25 years to do lol... then its onto the Vics and C64s!



Now the yellow peril is gone I have brought them out of the study and into the kids gaming room so that on the rare occasion their eyes move away from the PlayStation 4 they will get to see what a real computer looks like My treasured 8 bit stuff is still behind lock and key in the study away from jam covered fingers though lol



Cheers.. Mat

 

[DojoDan]

Aysel, that 500 looks fantastic. I did a 1200 with BBlonde maximum lift and it came up stunning. These cases really do respond well. Does take ages, took me 3 days to do the 1200, pasting the keys took the longest time.

Since the weather is looking fine - this is my project for today.

I'll post up pictures this evening. BBlonde here we come.

-

Had to use standard Peroxide Cream for the table on the left. Ran out of BBlonde, although I've just popped down Boots and picked up some more. Will re-apply later anyway. The standard Peroxide Cream is too runny really. The sun was out earlier now it's all cloudy worried I'm wasting my time today,

 

[ID4]

Hi!

I want to make retrobright, I brought "40 Vol 12% hydrogen peroxide" in a hairdresser, but this product is not liquid, it's kind of cream for use in hair dye.

The label indicates the following ingredients:

Aqua, hydrogen peroxide, Cetyl Alcohol (and) Stearly Alcohol (and) Sodium Laureth Sulfate, Urea, Citric Tetrasodium EDTA, Acetalnilid and Phenacetin.

¿Can I use it for make retorbirght?

Thanks

 

[demolition]

I want to make retrobright, I brought "40 Vol 12% hydrogen peroxide" in a hairdresser, but this product is not liquid, it's kind of cream for use in hair dye.
¿Can I use it for make retorbirght?

For all intents and purposes, I think it is Retrobright right out of the box. It sounds similar to the BBlonde product which people are also using directly for whitening plastics.

 

[ID4]

I think it is Retrobright right out of the box.

Really It's? So I can use it directly without any component more?

If so, Can I apply it "as is" or with water?

Thanks!!!!

 

[iainjh]

Trs keys

Couldn't get them completely white, but still rather good bblonde, 4 sessions. Far too many times so gave up and happy how they are now

 

[sputnik]

Trs keys

Couldn't get them completely white, but still rather good bblonde, 4 sessions. Far too many times so gave up and happy how they are now

Damn they look good! Did you just slap it on or use a dilute mixture?

 

[iainjh]

I slap it on! My own little routine is slap on a few good few mm, keep on rotating the pieces , tilt to make the most of the sun... slap on more every 20 mins or so to make sure it doesnt dry out and and two shorter sessions better than one

 

[Cloudane]

Well, after finding a guide online saying "hey, this B-Blonde stuff works!" I thought I'd give that a try, as it sounds much easier than trying to find peroxide and xanthan gum and whatnot.

The results are a mix of "partial" and "disasteriffic". I think the lesson I've taken away from this is "make some real retr0bright, don't try to mess with the hair stuff" - however I did ignore one bit of advice and did it outside, as I didn't have a clear windowsill.

Despite coating it in cling film, the results are quite literally a blooming mess.

The bottom half actually came out ok, I was lucky there. It's now the same colour as the hatch! (the hatch was significantly lighter). But the top is a horrible streaky mess, exactly as we have been warned about.

I think it helped a bit with the keys, but not much, I think they need the jar technique where you put in straight peroxide and a few other things.

I'm also very tired from going up and down stairs and in and out coating things washing things drying things.... and messing with the cling film drove me NUTS. All in all, I don't think I'm going to be bothered to try this again

The case wasn't too bad really, you can hardly tell from the photo but the front was a bit yellowed

Now it's better described as skip material. What a bummer. This is my second 500 which I repaired for a battery leak so no one would want it anyway (it works, but it'd be an offput), but still, feels like a waste. It gave its life for science, I suppose?

The keys fared a little better despite the stuff drying out all the time.
Keys before

And after (aborted, it started raining)

Many of them are still very yellow (not easy to see in the after pic) but they are all a lot better than they were.


(And yeah, we need some weed killer. Wonder if hydrogen peroxide works.)


Okay looking at it, it's not terrible.. I suppose it's still better than a very yellow unit, even with teh streaks. It does look a bit odd though, and I'm debating finishing off the keys.

 

[iainjh]

Did the cling film actually touch the case/ do you think that's what's caused the wave marks? Or are the lighter parts of the 'wave marks' where it's actually burnt the plastic?

btw I put my keys on a bit of card, and definitely do all outside. I don't bother with cling film but do top up every 30 mins or so

hope it's recoverable!

 

[sir_beaker]

I had exactly the same problem with my grey 1200 keys and BBlonde in the end white keys came out very well after a couple of treatment s though.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

- - - Updated - - -

Going to see if I can find someone with some decent spare grey keys once the sound has been sorted on the machine.... Shame as the rest came up really well. Bluesbrothers suggested trying some cream cleaner on them but unfortunately it didn't work for me.