Why no new accelerators?

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Your a gent Phil , thank you kind sir.

---------- Post added at 23:49 ---------- Previous post was at 23:46 ----------

One wonders - where the hell do you get 400 68060s from? Or are we talking software core here? ...

Goes off scratching his head...
 
Well call me shrewd, but I wouldn't consider buying one until I know exactly what it'll cost me and exactly what I'm getting for my money. I've seen no mention of RRP yet.

If it's anywhere near the price of PPC gear that's still available then I'm afraid it will be way out of my league. Might as well call it an Amiga Veyron.
 
Of course price is the deal breaker but until Amigakit get some interest in new products , they won't make them. I don't blame them either.

All we are asking at the moment is , how many would be interested.
 
I would love to Vote too but I can`t, manly because I live on a budget so If the card was over £200 even tough I would like one I would not be able to afford one.

Another reason is I already got an 060 so to buy another one it would have to be considerably more powerful and have better features than my current Blizzard PPC 060, so 512Mb of super fast ram would be a good place to start but I would still need more If I am splashing out on new kit

Just doing some wonky maths to get an idea how much I would spend on a new 060 card , using some off the shelf prices via amigakit

512Mb ZorRAM £156.12
SUBWAY USB CONTROLLER £ 94.99
68060 board and some glue £ 100.00

gives us a price in the region of £350 so that be the absolute Maximum and stupidest amount I would pay, the 68060 price was a guess and I have got no real idea actual how much the parts and development would actually cost so if any one has more accurate figers preferable ones that lower the price plz tell

Now I`m getting paranoid about posting prices, but how can I price drive a product that dose`t exist yet ...... humm, ribbits, ribbits in to the morning air
 
Well for a start it could come without an 060 in it and if it accepts Simms , then it doesn't need ram but they would possibly want fast ram surface mounted on the Pcb.. Not sure.

As for edge connectors , there must be tons of broken / faulty ram / accelerators for the 1200 in drawers but this creates a new set of problems. I.e removal and usefulness of them in the first place.

USB? I would expect you may get a header on the Pcb rather than fully fitted USB. Subway?

---------- Post added at 08:06 ---------- Previous post was at 08:03 ----------

I admit it would be great to see a connector on the accelerator for on board graphics - if that is possible ..

just the most basic of 3d graphics on the Amiga would be fantastic but of course software is the issue even if the hardware ever happened..
 
I wonder how easy/difficult it would be for a techy to integrate one of the Pico or Nano ITX mobos into the desired result. These mobos seem to have most of what we're looking for except PPC I suppose.
 
Nano itx, intel I take it?

---------- Post added at 08:29 ---------- Previous post was at 08:27 ----------

Via ...
 
I haven't read all post here, so maybe I would double someone's words, but:
1) Fast CPU will NOT run your software quicker - all performance boost will be wasted on 20 years old chips sitting on Amiga mobos. Even if you will run AGA as a frame buffer only with no special funcion used (some 060 optimized demos are acting like that) - AGA is slower than any slowest PCI 512kB graphic card. Sorry.
2) In A4000 it's not possible to install more than 128MB in CPU slot - it's the A4000 hardware design/kickstart limitation. :-( That is why CSPPC cards have less FAST RAM than BPPC. I don't know abour A1200 design, but I'm sure that qty of RAM in CPU slot is limited by classic hardware as well.

3) Slow IDE on classsic hardware will decrease overal performance.

4) 14bit sound (hack already) is not the best nowadays.

5) Classic mobos are plagued by drying caps/power issues so attaching powerfull accelerator will require some hacks to be done to run stable. Average user will not do that (it was an Jens idea to install ACA630 by authorized distributors ONLY to ensure that user will not have issues after).

6) Even considering that new hardware will be cheap and most of us would afford it - we need software that will utilize new resources. Who will write it? None commercial company is considering Amiga OS (not even talking about m68k platform that died on consumer market about 20 years ago). So it will be just software based on bounty system and by enthusisats. So nothing exciting here.

7) Point 1) can be fixed by adding GFX chip/FPGA implementation on turbo board + think about integrated ff/sd (for old AGA software) to have only one VGA out without bothering about home made switches done by users - extra cost.

8) Point 2) can?? be fixed by modding classic hardware + kickstart hacking. - only authorized service points can do that - extra cost

9) Point 3) and 4) can be fixed by adding extra hardware on turbo boards - quite easy to do, but extra cost.

10) And last what was said already - 90% of Amiga users are not interested with anything beyond WHDLoad specification: some 030+FAST. Jens made good research and created great products for these users.

In short: would love to see new hardware, but from economical and technical point of view does not make any sense. And this is the reason why no new high spec accelerators for classic hardware.
 
@stachu100, Good input :). I think if there were a PPC based upgrade available at a lower price range than the Phase 5 or DCE offerings it would allow more people to enjoy OS4.x

But there's another factor now in how the Amiga will move forward now that C= has re-purchased the rights to Amiga. How will the OS move on from here?
 
I'm in the new PPC accelerator camp, but would like to see a 060 as well, so I voted yes.

Realistically though, its best to wait till FPGA tech catches up and can emulate 060 at 100MHz. This would make the price a hell of a lot cheaper.

Also, why 512MB? 256MB is actually PLENTY for a classic 68K machine. And I think soldering it to the board like ACA is perfect, this would reduce the cost and footprint even more. Why add to cost with out of date SIMM/DIMM connectors?

Realistically: -

- Wait for PGA tech to emulate 060, its gonna happen probably sooner than we think, and we could easily have one doing 100MHz without even getting warm. (You will have a hard time sourcing 400 Rev 6 060's, even older ones if you plan to not go any higher than 50MHz)

- Soldered on 256MB RAM using the latest High speed stuff. We really don't need 512MB even for new developments. But of course, if it fits and doesn't cost much more then ok!

- USB 2.0 controller (Jens is beavering away with USB right now...)

- SATA Controller with 2X ports that somehow communicates with original IDE port to enable default support.

- Possibly add a cheap mobile GFX chipset purely for adding higher res screens (not expected to run warp3D or anything). And have a connection for native video thru a SD/FF.

This is possible in maybe 1 to 2 years time. I wouldn't be surprised if Jens is designing or at least considering something like this now.

---------------------

Bearing in mind that +5V can be regulated to 3.3V or whatever, and assuming the following is all located on the accelerator, or directly connected... this is my dream: -

A new PPC accelerator based on the Cell Processor. with some kind of softcore emulation onboard to enable the Cell to run as a 200MHz (or more) 060 when in 68K mode. Pair that with onboard Mobile GFX (with passthru and SD/FF for AGA), Onboard 16Bit Sound (with mixer pass thru for Paula and CD drive), 256/512MB onboard RAM. Then Optional USB 3.0, SATA on an expansion board.
 
Personally id rather see a basic 060 accelerator with some ram on the 1200 but for a 3000/4000 I'd Like to see a 060 & VGA solution in one.

Yes caps are dying on the Amiga boards but people should change them and power packs too. This is something that needs looking in to. People like you and hikey have helped people in the past and hopefully will continue to do so.

As for software , a bounty system could be run and a treasure appointed to keep the funds safe until a winner is agreed upon ?

Without a supply of decent accelerators the Amiga will just become more expensive and exclusive to own.

Just my two cents worth.
 
mjnurney said:
As for edge connectors , there must be tons of broken / faulty ram / accelerators for the 1200 in drawers but this creates a new set of problems. I.e removal and usefulness of them in the first place.
Click to expand...

Problems aside, acquiring broken / faulty 1200 boards for the edge connectors has recently been tried, by me. I posted a wanted add for this and no one offered their cards. Conclusion, even if there is boards in drawers, no one wants to part with them, probably in case they need them for their own use.:(
 
True enough. People don't like to sell them , just look at the cost of accelerators on eBay!

Sadly we will end up with accelerator boards costing a fortune , working and broken.thankfully Amibay keeps prices sensible but 060 & ppc stuff is still very expensive for what it is.

Hence , my question in the first place.

---------- Post added at 09:16 ---------- Previous post was at 09:07 ----------

Sadly if people aren't interested in buying new hardware then none will be made, it's pretty simple.

I'll go back to writting adventure games then on my 030 :-(
 
Phipscube; said:
255174 A new PPC accelerator based on the Cell Processor. with some kind of softcore emulation onboard to enable the Cell to run as a 200MHz (or more) 060 when in 68K mode. Pair that with onboard Mobile GFX (with passthru and SD/FF for AGA), Onboard 16Bit Sound (with mixer pass thru for Paula and CD drive), 256/512MB onboard RAM. Then Optional USB 3.0, SATA on an expansion board.
Click to expand...

You might as well unsaddle that completely from the Amiga then. You've described more or less a complete system on a cpu card :)
 
Ed.D said:
@stachu100, Good input :). I think if there were a PPC based upgrade available at a lower price range than the Phase 5 or DCE offerings it would allow more people to enjoy OS4.x
Click to expand...
It's much cheaper to buy modern "PPC-only" Amiga and run AOS4.1.X. out of the box if someone is intersted in that an don't care on what hardware ir's running.
What is also very important for most users that there is no tricks - just put all together an install the software.

And last - slowest "PPC-only" second hand (cheap) Amiga is running waaaay faster than any classic (expensive) hardware. So good experience is granted for low price *now*.

So why so few AOS4.1.X users we have?
My private answer: Amiga users (most) don't want to *use* AOS as main sysytem. They want to *talk* about it and watch some demo/play some game from time to time to feel childhood cilmate again. ;-)

Me for example: writing this post now on Windows Mobile device...
 
Well Justin if the best we can achieve after 1260 thread views, is 14 yes votes then we may as well go x86
 
if people actually buy the american Amiga clone things then i guess the Amiga will have gone X86 after all.

the Amiga will become a re-badged PC.

i believe the X1000 is already sold out, but i couldn't see how many units were actually available to begin with (100? 500? 1000?) whatever the number it will still be an incredably small part of the Amiga user base, add all the classic PPC users and you may be able to get up to 2000 users (I think i am being VERY generous here)

so 2000 ppc users in total, worth developing for? nope.

a million pc users? now there is the start of a market.

if Amiga OS4+ was lets say £30 and could run on a PC how many people would buy it? i know i would, with a bit of advertising etc a lot of Winuae users would buy it as well, so is it better to shift a couple of units at a high price or many units at a lower price?

in short, the fastest Amigas you could want are already around and at sensible prices we just need the OS:thumbsup:
 
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