Why no new accelerators?

[Justin]

older designs could be tricky m8 (yes i know i'm the negative one)

Jens owns the designs for the Apollos and won't release them as as has stated he wants all Apollos to no longer exist

and the Blizzy 1260 designs were lost

 

[roy_bates]

older designs could be tricky m8 (yes i know i'm the negative one)

Jens owns the designs for the Apollos and won't release them as as has stated he wants all Apollos to no longer exist

and the Blizzy 1260 designs were lost

true,i was thinking blizzard cards myself,or maybe jens himself could re-work the apollo range(not bring them back)obviosly without the mach chips,as a side note all the cards not just apollos had design faults(including the blizzys)

 

[Justin]

i love my Apollo and personally think Jens is wrong.

so @ jens! lol

 

[Phipscube]

The good thing about Apollos is they were/are a good cheaper alternative, and you can overclock them like mad! Before I plunged in the deep end with my BPPC I was looking at a 060@80MHz Apollo Card. Sure they are flawed, but what hardware isn't?

Releasing the designs of the Apollo open source would provide a starting block for a homebrew Accelerator. I'd love to perf board an accelerator! can you imagine all the wires!? AWESOME FUN!

 

[roy_bates]

The good thing about Apollos is they were/are a good cheaper alternative, and you can overclock them like mad! Before I plunged in the deep end with my BPPC I was looking at a 060@80MHz Apollo Card. Sure they are flawed, but what hardware isn't?

Releasing the designs of the Apollo open source would provide a starting block for a homebrew Accelerator. I'd love to perf board an accelerator! can you imagine all the wires!? AWESOME FUN!

well im not expecting jens to release the codes for the card,its his work after all.


what i was thinking was the way the cards work in general with the 040 card as a base unit to work to,if you get my meaning.(as ALL 060 cards work this way,all but a handfull anyway which where 040 only)and the way the cards interface with the amiga's and are seen before the kickstart.


as for the blizzards,sorry lads ive been out of the amiga scene for over 10 years didnt dce have them last?

who has the rights to them now?etc


basicly everyone would have to ask themselves a few questions about the hardware to start with.


can a amiga use sdram?
can a 040/060 be interfaced with sdram?
can an 060 be ran on an amiga at 100mhz?(even on the old hardware as proof of concept)

up untill recently these where thought impossible for all sorts of reasons.(just making a point here)

 

[Justin]

The good thing about Apollos is they were/are a good cheaper alternative, and you can overclock them like mad! Before I plunged in the deep end with my BPPC I was looking at a 060@80MHz Apollo Card. Sure they are flawed, but what hardware isn't?

Releasing the designs of the Apollo open source would provide a starting block for a homebrew Accelerator. I'd love to perf board an accelerator! can you imagine all the wires!? AWESOME FUN!

well im not expecting jens to release the codes for the card,its his work after all.


what i was thinking was the way the cards work in general with the 040 card as a base unit to work to,if you get my meaning.(as ALL 060 cards work this way,all but a handfull anyway which where 040 only)and the way the cards interface with the amiga's and are seen before the kickstart.


as for the blizzards,sorry lads ive been out of the amiga scene for over 10 years didnt dce have them last?

who has the rights to them now?etc


basicly everyone would have to ask themselves a few questions about the hardware to start with.


can a amiga use sdram?
can a 040/060 be interfaced with sdram?
can an 060 be ran on an amiga at 100mhz?(even on the old hardware as proof of concept)

up untill recently these where thought impossible for all sorts of reasons.(just making a point here)

it's not jens work, he just bought the designs to made sure Apollos aren't repaired or re-released

Blizzys were DCE but they lost the designs and that is the end of that

 

[roy_bates]

it's not jens work, he just bought the designs to made sure Apollos aren't repaired or re-released

Blizzys were DCE but they lost the designs and that is the end of that[/QUOTE]






i dont know why, but i was sure jens worked on the card with someone else while it was still in production.



DCE lost the designs?, who has the rights to them now?

 

[StrontiumDog]

it's not jens work, he just bought the designs to made sure Apollos aren't repaired or re-released

TBH, if I were in Jen's shoes I'd do likewise - He's on a nice little earner with his ACA1230's and doesn't need competition

 

[roy_bates]

it's not jens work, he just bought the designs to made sure Apollos aren't repaired or re-released

TBH, if I were in Jen's shoes I'd do likewise - He's on a nice little earner with his ACA1230's and doesn't need competition

im not sure its worth talking about anyway,a topic like that would probably make peaple angry including me,plus it serves no purpose.

 

[protek]

What about just a new m68k based AmigaOS? Optimized for the old architecture but taking advance from all the accelerators, with modern browsers and file managers and such? I know that there's a m86k native port of AROS in development, or at least I think there is, but what's its status?

I have also been thinking that a totally redesigned motherboard for A1200 would be nice. 030 minimum, lots of integration to save space and re-thinking the whole layout:

• trapdoor would give access to hard drive
• change accelerator connector to the one in A4000
• tilted riser containing single Zorro slot under the keyboard
• integrated scan doubler
• integrated USB

Yeah, sounds pretty far fetched but hey, if you don't set your goals high, you'll never achieve anything.

 

[roy_bates]

What about just a new m68k based AmigaOS? Optimized for the old architecture but taking advance from all the accelerators, with modern browsers and file managers and such? I know that there's a m86k native port of AROS in development, or at least I think there is, but what's its status?


I have also been thinking that a totally redesigned motherboard for A1200 would be nice. 030 minimum, lots of integration to save space and re-thinking the whole layout:

• trapdoor would give access to hard drive
• change accelerator connector to the one in A4000
• tilted riser containing single Zorro slot under the keyboard
• integrated scan doubler
• integrated USB

Yeah, sounds pretty far fetched but hey, if you don't set your goals high, you'll never achieve anything.

this is probably why theres no new accelorators

 

[AmigaNut08]

060

060

I would buy a new 060 board with 256mb of ram if the price was under $400AU.

I'd also like to add my 20 bobs worth about this thread. Just go back and read the first post by mjnurney. I think a lot of people are missing the point of this thread. He is purely asking why is there no new Amiga accelerators, and everyone is jumping in with stuff like whats the point, there's no software, and one outrageous comment about how faster cpu's wont run your software faster?? WTF!!!!! Why were accelerator boards ever created for then?

I think the majority of classic Amiga owners that would be interested in the 060 board are ones that cannot afford the outrageous prices that they fetch on the other bay, or if you are willing to pay those prices, are always unlucky and miss out cause you forgot about the ending time of the auction, people that are happy with the huge amount of software already written and available that will run incredibly faster with the help of an 060, and those that purely dont like emulation.

C'mon guys, lets keep it simple and not loose the point of the whole thread.

 

[Buzzfuzz]

I would buy any board that comes out by Amigakit or Jens or whoever.

The thing is, what we need is 060 board for the 1200/3000/4000.
These models are where a 060 card could do well.
I would rather see an x86 processor linked to it than a ppc.
If you can get that working, then you have the bridge to the pc world.

 

[Justin]

I would buy a new 060 board with 256mb of ram if the price was under $400AU.

I'd also like to add my 20 bobs worth about this thread. Just go back and read the first post by mjnurney. I think a lot of people are missing the point of this thread. He is purely asking why is there no new Amiga accelerators, and everyone is jumping in with stuff like whats the point, there's no software, and one outrageous comment about how faster cpu's wont run your software faster?? WTF!!!!! Why were accelerator boards ever created for then?

I think the majority of classic Amiga owners that would be interested in the 060 board are ones that cannot afford the outrageous prices that they fetch on the other bay, or if you are willing to pay those prices, are always unlucky and miss out cause you forgot about the ending time of the auction, people that are happy with the huge amount of software already written and available that will run incredibly faster with the help of an 060, and those that purely dont like emulation.

C'mon guys, lets keep it simple and not loose the point of the whole thread.

ummm, those comments are the reasons why there are no new accelerators, no software, too expensive, lost or kept schematics, already alternatives, no point etc, and as for your comment on price, a new card will be in the region of 4-500 so not any cheaper than models found elsewhere.

hurrah!! the king of negativity strikes again

 

[Mr B]

I would buy any board that comes out by Amigakit or Jens or whoever.

The thing is, what we need is 060 board for the 1200/3000/4000.
These models are where a 060 card could do well.
I would rather see an x86 processor linked to it than a ppc.
If you can get that working, then you have the bridge to the pc world.

I doubt you will ever see a 680x0 + "some CPU" design that gets a new factory run. Faster accelerators will come when the FPGA's can emulate 68030 at higher speeds, at low cost chips.

And i'm not sure what your on about, bridging the gap, by sticking a x86 CPU on a Amiga accelerator? You do realise that no software written for current x86 systems would run on it, and no software written for it, would run on current x86 systems. The only benefit you'd get is that you could run wine, (and similar environments) and have the x86 CPU run x86 software as if on a x86 system. In which case your better of using the x86 system to start with. It's going to be faster, more reliable, and most likely, a lot cheaper.

The whole 680x0+PPC design was out of necessity, it's a inferior design, and if they could, they would just have used a faster 680x0 CPU instead.
B!

 

[Phipscube]

Give it 2 years, then we'll most likely see an FPGA 060 running ultra cool at at least 100MHz with onboard 256MB high speed RAM for approx 200 bones.

 

[Ritcho]

I would buy any board that comes out by Amigakit or Jens or whoever.

The thing is, what we need is 060 board for the 1200/3000/4000.
These models are where a 060 card could do well.
I would rather see an x86 processor linked to it than a ppc.
If you can get that working, then you have the bridge to the pc world.

I doubt you will ever see a 680x0 + "some CPU" design that gets a new factory run. Faster accelerators will come when the FPGA's can emulate 68030 at higher speeds, at low cost chips.

And i'm not sure what your on about, bridging the gap, by sticking a x86 CPU on a Amiga accelerator? You do realise that no software written for current x86 systems would run on it, and no software written for it, would run on current x86 systems. The only benefit you'd get is that you could run wine, (and similar environments) and have the x86 CPU run x86 software as if on a x86 system. In which case your better of using the x86 system to start with. It's going to be faster, more reliable, and most likely, a lot cheaper.

The whole 680x0+PPC design was out of necessity, it's a inferior design, and if they could, they would just have used a faster 680x0 CPU instead.
B!

I agree!
A FPGA with fast emulating 680X0 is the way! And an Softcore with possibility of update maybe...
[]s,
Ritcho.

 

[roy_bates]

i actaully beleive an fpga only solution will be more expensive than the 060 cards that are around now.mainly because of the way a 060 is made its got 2.5 million transistors.


i know peaple wont see the relivence of this but an 060 is alot more complex than a 68000-030 and a about a million more than an 040.

ive heard talk of one development that hasent got an fpu on board for me at least thats pretty useless.as it may as well be an 030 card.floating point maths is faster then integer.

 

[Mr B]

I think your wrong. I have little doubt that there are needs that makes a fpga solution both expensive and cumbersome for quite some time, but i have little doubt that a fpga 68030 that would outperform most 68060 boards would attract some users. Even if it is without a fpu. Lets face it. Most of use use the Amiga for hoots and laughter, the productivity use is fairly low. The equivalent of a 50-60MHz 68030 is more then enough for "most" of us. A 100-200MHz or even more equivalent part made from parts that are mass-produced at a low cost isn't going to go unnoticed past anyone here. Most wont need it, but heck, i don't really "need" the ACA1230/56 either. I would have done just fine with the slower one. I just rather spend the extra bucks on the faster one, then getting a few beers extra on a weekend.

That said about what i think is the average Joe's needs. The next thing is availability. Are there any 680x0 CPU's still being even intermittently produced? I think it's all at best "new old stock", and recycled parts. fpga's are more and more being used, productionruns counts in the 100 000 units, and it's only going up. Even a complex fpga, made in high volume is going to be fairly cheap, especially when it's no longer the latest generation, and is just a space eater in the storage to the manufacturer.

As fpga's get more advanced, it will be possible to switch from a 68030 to a 68040, or a 68060 with click of a button, or possibly, by the flick of a switch. FPU's n' all. That may still be a while yet, but i think we aren't that long away from a point where a 68030 accelerator makes sense when built on a fpga platform. It just has to be cheaper to use then a recycled 68030 part, @ the same speed. Thats what. 35-40 bucks at 30MHz ? I don't think thats unreasonable within a few years. Not to mention that the new & recycled parts wont get cheaper.

B!

 

[Gouldin]

I'd settle for a rerelease of the SX32pro's, or just an IDE adaptor and A1200 expansion inside the CD32 would be nice so I could plug in a nice '060 board to it

Will never happen though