Why no new accelerators?

[Puni/Void]

I'd settle for a rerelease of the SX32pro's, or just an IDE adaptor and A1200 expansion inside the CD32 would be nice so I could plug in a nice '060 board to it

Will never happen though

That would be awesome. My CD32 is crying for such an upgrade. It's sad that the SX32's are so rare and expensive these days - they literally cost a fortune!

 

[dj.echo]

no

no

maybe because the 060 and ppc cards would be too expensive to develop?

cant imagine them going for less than say 3-400 a pop.(060 no ppc)

little history

060 and ppc wouldn't be alot you wouldn't use old hardware they would use new tec not hard to find tec no longer in prodoction
Motorola 68060 (MC68060) is the fourth and the last generation of 680x0 line of 32-bit microprocessors. The 68060 has two 4-stage pipelines, separate 8KB instruction and data caches, two Paged Memory Management Units - one for instructions and another for data, and two integer execution units. Like its predecessor MC68040, the 68060 integrates Floating-Point Unit compatible with Motorola 68881 / 68882 co-processors. The FPU provides hardware support only for most common floating-point instructions and data types. All unsupported instructions and data types are emulated in software.
Supervisor mode of the Motorola 68060 CPU differs from the 68040 due to changes in exception processing. User mode of the Motorola 68060 is object-compatible with MC68040, assuming that the CPU uses special software to simulate a few instructions that were present in 68040 CPU and are missing in MC68060.
The Motorola 68060 is much faster than its predecessor, mainly due to higher clock speed, superscalar design, larger instruction and data caches and branch prediction. Under the best conditions the 68060 can execute one integer instruction and one Floating-Point instruction per clock cycle, or up to 2 integer instructions and one branch instruction per clock cycle. Not all integer instructions can be executed simultaneously. Also, the CPU cannot execute the instructions out of order.
The 68060 CPU uses lower voltage - 3.3 Volt as opposed to 5 Volt for 68040. Lower core voltage directly translates into lower CPU power requirements. For example, 68060 66 MHz dissipates as much power as 68040 33 MHz. In addition to lower voltage the 68060 includes other power-saving features, such as powering down individual chip units when they are not in use, and ability to stop the clock while saving the contents of CPU registers.
Motorola also manufactured two low-cost versions of the 68060 microprocessor:

• 68LC060 (MC68LC060) was a low-cost version without integrated FPU
• 68EC060 (MC68EC060) was an embedded version without integrated FPU and MMU units.

 

[dj.echo]

bit more

bit more

The superscalar MC68060 represents a new line of Freescale Semiconductor microprocessor products. The M68060 product line consists of the MC68060, MC68LC060, and MC68EC060.The MC68EC060 offers superscalar integer performance of over 110 MIPS at 75 MHz. The MC68060 comes fully equipped with both a floating-point unit (FPU) and a memory management unit (MMU) for high-performance embedded control applications. For cost-sensitive embedded control and desktop applications where an MMU is required, but the additional cost of a FPU is not justified, the MC68LC060 offers high performance at a low cost. Specifically designed for low-cost embedded control applications, the MC68EC060 eliminates both the FPU and MMU, permitting designers to leverage MC68060 performance while avoiding the cost of unnecessary features.


Features

• Completely User-Code Compatible with the MC68040
• Superscalar Implementation of M68000 Architecture
• Branch Cache Reduces Branches to Zero Cycles
• Executes Three Instructions per Clock
• Dual 8K On-Chip Caches
• Bus Snooping
• Independent Instruction and Data Paged MMUs (MC68060 and MC68LC060 Only)
• Full 32-Bit Nonmultiplexed Address an Data Bus
• Power Management
• IEEE-Compatible On-Chip FPU (MC68060 Only)
• Available in 50 and 60 MHz Speeds (MC68060)
• Available in 50, 66 and 75 MHz Speeds (MC68LC060 and MC68EC060)
• @ a cost of $100 to $300

still available from

Motorola 68060/50 MHz

[SIZE=+1]68060 Processor (incl. FPU and MMU)[/SIZE]
@ EUR 79.90

what is needed is a PPC WITH THE Motorola 68060 Emulation

 

[roy_bates]

maybe because the 060 and ppc cards would be too expensive to develop?

cant imagine them going for less than say 3-400 a pop.(060 no ppc)

little history

060 and ppc wouldn't be alot you wouldn't use old hardware they would use new tec not hard to find tec no longer in prodoction
Motorola 68060 (MC68060) is the fourth and the last generation of 680x0 line of 32-bit microprocessors. The 68060 has two 4-stage pipelines, separate 8KB instruction and data caches, two Paged Memory Management Units - one for instructions and another for data, and two integer execution units. Like its predecessor MC68040, the 68060 integrates Floating-Point Unit compatible with Motorola 68881 / 68882 co-processors. The FPU provides hardware support only for most common floating-point instructions and data types. All unsupported instructions and data types are emulated in software.
Supervisor mode of the Motorola 68060 CPU differs from the 68040 due to changes in exception processing. User mode of the Motorola 68060 is object-compatible with MC68040, assuming that the CPU uses special software to simulate a few instructions that were present in 68040 CPU and are missing in MC68060.
The Motorola 68060 is much faster than its predecessor, mainly due to higher clock speed, superscalar design, larger instruction and data caches and branch prediction. Under the best conditions the 68060 can execute one integer instruction and one Floating-Point instruction per clock cycle, or up to 2 integer instructions and one branch instruction per clock cycle. Not all integer instructions can be executed simultaneously. Also, the CPU cannot execute the instructions out of order.
The 68060 CPU uses lower voltage - 3.3 Volt as opposed to 5 Volt for 68040. Lower core voltage directly translates into lower CPU power requirements. For example, 68060 66 MHz dissipates as much power as 68040 33 MHz. In addition to lower voltage the 68060 includes other power-saving features, such as powering down individual chip units when they are not in use, and ability to stop the clock while saving the contents of CPU registers.





Motorola also manufactured two low-cost versions of the 68060 microprocessor:

• 68LC060 (MC68LC060) was a low-cost version without integrated FPU
• 68EC060 (MC68EC060) was an embedded version without integrated FPU and MMU units.

no again,im talking about DEVELOPMENT costs NOT how much it is for an 060 or PPC part,there are more than just the cpu on these cards you need some way of connecting it to the amiga and the ram bus.then you have to ADD production costs to these figures as well,which will push the total up even more wouldent you agree?

development costs money my freind it dont just appear.

as for using ec and lc parts ok they are cheaper but i wouldent want a cpu without the fpu.would you?


as for running 060 code emulated in ppc,you mean like os 4.1 does for 040? no thanks.the ppc would have to be uber fast dont you think?




thanks for the history lesson though,although this wont help you make a new card.did you actaully understand what i said in the post you answered to?

 

[dj.echo]

ello

ello

we do need new tech from anywhere to get a good working old ppc card cost the earth if someone made one like the new 1200 and 600 cards just one ppc board as standard we would buy well i would

 

[cosmicfrog]

just have a cheap x86 run the core of winuae then glue that to something so it can talk freely with ya amiga hardware, that should give u a speed boost + other options depending on development direction

 

[dj.echo]

dun that lol

dun that lol

my new baby is a mac mini triple boot tigger,morphos,commodore os
my main amipc is AMIKIT,OS3.9, then a 1TB drive with about 20home computers that can boot in to any one 8bit up to 32bit then about 7 console with a nice case badge that says AMIGA HISTORY MACHINE got some bugs to get out but works good only have a
blizzard mkiv 1240 with the scsi and 256meg in my 1200 the last 1200 OLD NEW STOCK from AMIGAKIT so back on track she would like a bit of ppc
AND SOME NICE DESKTOP THEMES mac mini

 

[AmiNeo]

To join this thread late... I dont see why there cant be multiple CPU accelerators. Such as an ACA030 with a spare socket to add a second 030 lol. Multithreaded accelerators!

Hell why not an ARM accelerator They run nice and cool and are way fast enough to emulate 060 code. It'd be a task sure but think how fast you could get a miggy running, lol


And yeah yeah, all you serious people will tell me about the cost of development. But theoretically, it would be pretty awesome to see.

 

[salaxi54]

my new baby is a mac mini triple boot tigger,morphos,commodore os

I can understand Tiger and MorphOS, but Commodore OS? Have they "made" a distro for ppc machines, or is it just skins and stuff plugged-in to a regular Linux ppc distro?

 

[Justin]

my new baby is a mac mini triple boot tigger,morphos,commodore os

I can understand Tiger and MorphOS, but Commodore OS? Have they "made" a distro for ppc machines, or is it just skins and stuff plugged-in to a regular Linux ppc distro?

yeah it is just a cludge:nod:

 

[robinsonb5]

Hell why not an ARM accelerator They run nice and cool and are way fast enough to emulate 060 code. It'd be a task sure but think how fast you could get a miggy running, lol

That'd be very cool - but spare a thought for how insufferable Acorn fans would become if we started putting Arm processors in our Miggys!

Seriously, though, is there a 68K -> ARM JIT compiler yet? Because a non-JIT emulation wouldn't offer much improvement speedwise.

 

[salaxi54]

Seriously, though, is there a 68K -> ARM JIT compiler yet? Because a non-JIT emulation wouldn't offer much improvement speedwise.

Maybe not a JIT situation, but it seems if (someone) really wants to move on, there's nothing stopping them..
http://www.accessdevnet.com/docs/palmos/PalmOSCompanion/PalmOS5ARM_Chapter.html
I can't change my mind that this is just a strategy of a firm or two to keep things slow and expensive..

 

[Buzzfuzz]

OS4.x and possible future OS5 or whatever, if people can pay 2000 large on an X1000, why not port it to x86 and have it run on either an Amiga with bridge board or a normal x86 system.

Amiga OS needs to come off those special processors and join the mainstream.

FPGA is an idea if only for RoHS to be compliant, but I still like it to be a 71E41J MC68060 if possible, I know that will work if it as stable as a Blizzard 1260 or Cyberstorm MKIII.

And i'm not sure what your on about, bridging the gap, by sticking a x86 CPU on a Amiga accelerator? You do realise that no software written for current x86 systems would run on it, and no software written for it, would run on current x86 systems. The only benefit you'd get is that you could run wine, (and similar environments) and have the x86 CPU run x86 software as if on a x86 system. In which case your better of using the x86 system to start with. It's going to be faster, more reliable, and most likely, a lot cheaper.

 

[Justin]

OMG!!! someone agrees with what i've been saying for years!!

OS4.x and possible future OS5 or whatever, if people can pay 2000 large on an X1000, why not port it to x86 and have it run on either an Amiga with bridge board or a normal x86 system.

Amiga OS needs to come off those special processors and join the mainstream.

FPGA is an idea if only for RoHS to be compliant, but I still like it to be a 71E41J MC68060 if possible, I know that will work if it as stable as a Blizzard 1260 or Cyberstorm MKIII.

And i'm not sure what your on about, bridging the gap, by sticking a x86 CPU on a Amiga accelerator? You do realise that no software written for current x86 systems would run on it, and no software written for it, would run on current x86 systems. The only benefit you'd get is that you could run wine, (and similar environments) and have the x86 CPU run x86 software as if on a x86 system. In which case your better of using the x86 system to start with. It's going to be faster, more reliable, and most likely, a lot cheaper.

 

[rkauer]

who has the rights to them now?etc

No one.

basicly everyone would have to ask themselves a few questions about the hardware to start with.

Let's go:

can a amiga use sdram?

Yes, but the design is tricky, at best. SDRAM have higher raise and fall edges (signal-wise) and the interface must be pass through a very fast PGA. I've check the schematics while researching a DIY 030 accelerator for the A600, a few years ago. The (free) available code is for the 68k replacement CPU: the Coldfire.

can a 040/060 be interfaced with sdram?

See above.

can an 060 be ran on an amiga at 100mhz?(even on the old hardware as proof of concept)

Yes and no.

The 060 CPU can. Memory and memory interface are not faster enough to cope with this clock speed.

up until recently these where thought impossible for all sorts of reasons.(just making a point here)

The 100MHz was already reached (see Stan/Stachu efforts on this very site).

 

[Xanxi]

Not interested in any new 68060 accelerators in the 50 to 80 MHz range because i already own several for my A1200/A2000/A4000.

However, i would be interested in a new FPGA very fast emulated CPU such as a 68030@200 MHz or a 68060@200 MHz.

 

[r0jaws]

....Amiga OS needs to come off those special processors and join the mainstream.

Like an ARM processor? I've heard they may be in one or two systems.

 

[roy_bates]

who has the rights to them now?etc

No one.

basicly everyone would have to ask themselves a few questions about the hardware to start with.

Let's go:



Yes, but the design is tricky, at best. SDRAM have higher raise and fall edges (signal-wise) and the interface must be pass through a very fast PGA. I've check the schematics while researching a DIY 030 accelerator for the A600, a few years ago. The (free) available code is for the 68k replacement CPU: the Coldfire.



See above.

can an 060 be ran on an amiga at 100mhz?(even on the old hardware as proof of concept)

Yes and no.

The 060 CPU can. Memory and memory interface are not faster enough to cope with this clock speed.

up until recently these where thought impossible for all sorts of reasons.(just making a point here)

The 100MHz was already reached (see Stan/Stachu efforts on this very site).

can you post the thread here please of the 100mhz 060 card that stachu did out of interest?,as i have done this myself with two cards.

 

[rkauer]

I couldn't found the thread with my poor search skills, but I'm sure they are in this very forum.

Stan use to sell lots of upgraded Blizzard PPC & Apollo 1260@80MHz here, so you might ask him directly.

 

[roy_bates]

I couldn't found the thread with my poor search skills, but I'm sure they are in this very forum.

Stan use to sell lots of upgraded Blizzard PPC & Apollo 1260@80MHz here, so you might ask him directly.

yes i know he does them to 80mhz,he told me he tried it at 100 mhz last year, and couldent do itit doesent really matter to me i just would of liked a read of what he thinks.


if its any consulation i couldent find it either